Mind control/dreams - Writers Forum

Coldwriter · 06-26-2005, 06:48 PM

Has anyone seen Manchurain candidate? If you have, you will see where I am coming from with more ease. I need to know the technicalties, problems, procedures, etc...when it comes to mind control. Some characters in a story are going to be "brainwashed". Is there psychology techniques or intense hypnosis? Or are there devices that can be surgecially inserted? If it comes down to a medical procedure...I am lost.
Any tips on how to brainwash, side-effects, or anything else...appreciated.

Verago · 06-26-2005, 08:50 PM

Aye. Good movie.
Anyway, on subject...

It's psychological techniques.
Example: You tell someone to do something. They do it for you, they get food. They don't do it for you, they don't eat that day. Proceed in this pattern for a few months, and their mind will almost certainly be broken.
You could also subsititue lashings, yelling at, threats, being forced to sit in a dark room alone, being stripped naked and put out in the cold, being leashed up to a stake in the ground...
Pretty much just the basic positive/negative behavioral reinforcement.

Usually involved in mind control and brainwashing is...
-Hopelessnes.
-Stockholm's Syndrome.
-Time for it to take effect.
-Panic.
-Distortion of time.
-Sleep deprevation.
-Confinement.
-Prior relationships with the brainwasher.
-Some kind of drug. Truth serum is a possibility.

Side effects may include...
-Rare black outs.
-Insomnia.
-Paranoia.
-Schizophrenia. (Is rare, but is usually preceded by paranoia.)

And, while aphrodisiacs may be considered mind-controlling chemicals, and I -suppose- some kind of scent producing chip could be implanted under the nose to induce a really loving, trusting feel in a person...though this is just my own speculation.

And as for "anything else...", this could be of help.
-Government agents are usually trained to resist psychological tactics with greater fortitude than the untrained individual. HOWEVER, it -is- possible for a civilian to learn these tactics by studying military manuals, by learning the psychology behind the tactics (something I study avidly.), or, my favorite...by killing the enemy if possible.

Certain resistance tactics, I suppose, could include...
-The Safety Figure.
The user focuses on a pretend, psychological "friend", like a comfort object. The object is usually something totally obscured, so as to prevent the psychological "attacker" from guessing or figuring it out. It has the same effect as a child's security blanket, and, if compromised, may lead to extended trauma beyond what would've been encumbered without the use of this technique.

-The Silent Treatment.
Simple; saying nothing, do nothing, do not respond. Essentially, do not give them anything to work with, and they will not be able to work. Though, this is not a recommended tactic. This may result in the enemy killing you for being uncooperative.

And just so you know I'm not a lunatic or a fool, I'm working on a degree in psychology, and am pursuing neurology as a career, with writing on the side.

Hope I helped.
Ethanael.

mammamaia · 06-27-2005, 10:24 AM

coldwriter... i've seen both the original and terrible remake... the original [with sinatra and harvey] is way behind the times in how the subjects were 'programmed' but it was accurate for what was known then...

nowadays, pretty much all the methods you list can be used...

Ajax · 06-27-2005, 11:28 AM

All the listed techniques are good.
I'll just add in "logic bending" for a thought here.

It's lower-level than the listed techniques and is used in conjunction with all or some of them. It's primary purpose is to twist the victim's mind into believing something contrary to what they currently believe. This is done by "proving" to them that what they currently believe is wrong. When combined with pain, sleep deprivation and chemicals, it can alter the way the victim perceives their reality. Consider the use of LSD as well for this.

For example, you might have someone that's completely loyal to their native contry and want to turn them into an operative for your own country. A technique for that might be to make them understand that the organization they work for is actually a front for another country and that they've been working for the wrong side. You can provide with with "proof" of any type you want since you have total control here and can make up any story you wish. The goal is to make them believe that YOU are the only one they can trust, and to prove this to them beyond a shadow of a doubt. As you get closer to the end of the process, you stop using the pain and some of the other techniques. You don't want them to remember those, and they all need to be done when the victim is extremely tired and on the drugs. Once you've made the logic alterations, then you can slowly start giving them more freedom with the understanding that they are "here" because they have been chosen for some special attribute that only they possess. Make sure they understand that they are speical. And that the other members of their previous organization believe as they do because they don't know the full truth, but that they have been chosen to know if because they are trustworthy and possess the talents necessary to "save" something or do something extremely important for their base cause.

Using techniques like this, you can subvert someone without them realizing their working contrary to their base cause. In other words, they still believe they are working for their own country, while in reality they're actually working for you and your organization (whatever that might be).

You'll want them to be paranoid, and suspicious. You'll want them to think that others in their actual organization are wrong, and that they don't know the full truth (ie. the one you made up). You'll want to make sure they know that if they reveal the full truth, they'll blow their cover and will end up being taken out by the "bad guys" who actually run their organization. And you'll want to make sure they know that this is a desperate fight and that their country is relying on them heavily to assist them in (whatever problem you made up).

Anyway, these are just some ideas off the top of my head. Feel free to use them in your story if you want. There's nothing really new here, this is just basic subversion. And I can't claim to know anything about it other than what I've read.

Coldwriter · 06-27-2005, 12:25 PM

Wow...I did not expect all of this. AWESOME! Thank you all. I like what I read. However, I believe I should give part of my story away to show the circumstances that would need the brainwashing. The techniques listed are for those characters in my that are going to "join" the group that does it to them. But there are those who will be put back into society, with no memory of their past life.
I'd love to share this story with you if you ask. If you like what I asked about above, then you just may want to indulge yourselves in this
Thanks again!

Verago · 06-27-2005, 12:50 PM

I'm asking...could you post some of it (or all of it!) in the Critique and Advice or Fiction Section?

Also, coldwriter, it seems both our stories have something in common...(in mine, the good guy joins the bad guys...Notice how I didn't call them Protagonist and Antagonists. There really isn't either in this story...)

Well, I hope you stay around here at Writing Forums...and good luck on your story!

Ilan Bouchard · 06-27-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verago

Certain resistance tactics, I suppose, could include...
-The Safety Figure.
The user focuses on a pretend, psychological "friend", like a comfort object. The object is usually something totally obscured, so as to prevent the psychological "attacker" from guessing or figuring it out. It has the same effect as a child's security blanket, and, if compromised, may lead to extended trauma beyond what would've been encumbered without the use of this technique.

I don't quite understand, though this sounds fascinating. Verago, would you care elaborating?

Verago · 06-28-2005, 02:20 PM

No problem.

You know how sometimes a child will hold onto a teddy bear or something when scared?
It's kind of like an implementation of that...
Except the 'teddy bear' of the Agent might be something totally weird, like a duck named Harvey, and it would only exist in his/her mind. When the Agent is stressed...they kind of seek comfort in their 'teddy bear'.

BUT if the enemy figures out what the 'teddy bear' object of the agent is, they can usually use that information to induce even greater psychological trauma by doing things like (if it was a Duck Named Harvey) burning a toy duck with the name Harvey written all over it, or by showing a picture of a duck, and when the Agent looks at it, they strike him with a pole, shoot him, threaten him...etc.,

And then the Agent might be distraught, sad, depressed, and all that, at seeing their 'teddy bear' destroyed, defiled, degraded, and all those other good 'de' words.
At which point, their minds are weak enough to subject them to traditional psychological techniques.

It's pretty much just another technique one can use to resist negative reinforcement or logic bending tactics.

Of course, the comfort object could also be something a lot more mature...like their wife, their kids, their parents...childhood pet...a mountain where they grew up...

If you care to hear more, let me know.
And this is why I love psychology.

Sincerely,
Ethanael

Coldwriter · 06-29-2005, 02:02 PM

To Verago:
Thanks again for the interest. My first college class was a psych class. That field is very intriguing to say the least. Ever done the myers-briggs test?

As for posting the idea/story in a forum...sure thing! Look for it in the next few days.

Verago · 06-29-2005, 02:10 PM

Yeah. Jung's a little weird, but it seems to be accurate. I forgot what my type was, but it's supposed to be rare.

I also took a few of those "Left Brain/Right Brain" tests, and it turns out I use my Left and my Right exactly equally. Maybe that's why I'm so dang crazy.

And I look forward to reading it. It sounds good, if it has anything to do with brainssss.

semtecks · 06-29-2005, 06:31 PM

From what i remember from Psych 101 you can't hypnotyse somebody to do something that contradicts their moral code. You could maybe hypnotise a soldier to commit murder, but not a normal person. But i suppose there are ways around that.

Best way to hypnotyse someone--and easiest--is by subliminal messaging.

Verago · 07-04-2005, 11:52 AM

You might not be able to make someone commit murder, but you could convince them that the person they're looking at is the person they hate more than anyone else. Then they'd -want- to kill him/her.

Shawn · 07-04-2005, 11:59 AM

Forgive me if I'm repeating someone, but to control someones mind would require complete concentration, in effectiveness your soul would be possessing someone else. So you couldn't eat or sleep or function and this makes the 'power' very unrealistic.

You could make it with a guy who has a fallen angel for a guardian and he orders him to posess people but that would be slightly cliche.

Ilan Bouchard · 07-04-2005, 12:12 PM

Um, did you read any of the other posts in this thread?

Shawn · 07-04-2005, 12:22 PM

Absolutely not, thats why I said what I said at the beginning of my post... I don't have much time to spare between now and 12:00.