urbanophelia

I'm writing a short story about a faerie tale like creature who sleeps through peacetime and wakes during war time. It starts out in 1930's Poland, goes through Vietnam, the Gulf War, and ends up in modern day Iraq.

I'm finding tons of sources for everything but the vietnam war--Can anyone recomend any good, comprehensive sites, books, movies to look into?

Thanks in advance.

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barnsturm

"The 13th Valley" by John M. Del Vecchio is a fictional work based on true-life situations that will really capture the experience of the field grunt for you.

kerpoe

13th Valley is beyond excellent in my opinion. A good factual movie that captures the perplexity of Vietnam War (in the suit of fictional characters) is Apocalypse Now.

Cheers

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Queasy Dillo

I'm going to have to disagree with KERpoe here.

Apocalypse Now is a movie about madness, as was Conrad's Heart of Darkness. It uses the Viet Nam war as a backdrop, but it is by no means a documentary.

Which leads me to another point - never, NEVER use a movie as a source of information. Inspiration maybe, but double check your facts. Keep in mind that most movies about that particular war are skewed one way or the other, depending on a particular message the director might have.

Also, try and avoid the pitfall cliches that tend to surround Vietnam. Don't believe everything you hear or read. Whatever you do, look for as many sources as you can get. Be sure your gear, uniforms, and weapons are straight. Refrain from using modern slang. Know tactics (if relevant). Stuff like that.

Meanwhile, I'll see if I can come up with any good sources.

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urbanophelia

Thank you all! I'll look foward to the sources you find. It's important to me to get this right.

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barnsturm

Over the last 20 years I've talked to many Viet Nam vets about their experiences there. It is a touchy subject. By far, most I have spoken with have felt very conflicted about their role and experience there. I would like to list a few experiences/stories I have heard over the years, all told to me by the participants. I would judge that 95% of what I've heard was accurate. (I only have dubieties about one or two stories.) I will also list "Little Details," abbreviated LD, remembered and relayed by each man if I remember one.

Mick -- Mick was 18 when he went over. He joined the Navy and became a medic (Corpsman). He was with the Marines. I commented that I used to think if I got drafted I'd prefer to be a medic and not have to shoot. He said that was a nice idea, but in reality you are first aid AND shooting back. He was at a place called "Mike's Hill" during the big Tet Offensive. 1/3 of his company died. LD: half barrels used as latrines, that, when full, were covered in deisel and burned off; he cooked for his company, mixing the contents of several ration kits, then boiling them quickly using little chunks of C4.

Bill T.- his first day "in country" they were hit by a rocket attack, so he spent his first night in a bunker that was flooded with about a foot of water and had a great many rats swimming in it; he said, "I think about Viet Nam every day. I live near [our local helicopter pad]," so he constantly is brought back to the sound of being there. LD: He was the first to tell me about the barrel latrines; every time he smells diesel he thinks of them.

Bill B.-He was telling me and a female co-worker about View Nam; "When we got back to California we got spit on and yelled at, calling us baby killers, but most of the time we didn't have to do that," meaning, killing babies. The look of shock on my female co-worker's face spoke volumes, and I thought that here was a sign of the disruption in Bill's life, that he couldn't discern whom to relate certain details to. LD: an incoming rocket that hit his transport looked like it was moving in slow motion as it came in.

Ray - I knew Ray when he was 34 in 1989. He joined the Navy at the end of the war, being signed in by his mom because he was 17. He became a SEAL. He said he was "an assassin: swim down here, come up, stab, this guy, swim under, come up, stab ths guy, swim back." I didn't always trust his story, partly because he was so young. But he was a raging alcoholic at 34, and I also remember that we had to pull him bodily out of a gas station minimarket because all of a sudden, unprovoked, he had gone off on the Asian clerk, "I should have killed you while I was there!" He was semi crazed as we dragged him out, but fotunately, one of the other guys on the crew was 6'8" and weighed over 300 pounds, and Ray wouldn't fight back against us.

Bill C.- An Army Infantryman, he was in Da Nang during the Tet Offensive; the 101st Airborne sealed off the town; he was 19 and his nickname was "Grandpa". He was the leader of his small unit; they were driving a "deuce and a half" with an M60 mounted on the back. They would get to an intersection, peek out left and right "to make sure no rockets were coming down the street," and dart across. Come nightfall they needed a place to rest. They pulled the deuce-and-a-half forward into a collapsed store front with the M60 sticking out for defense. Inside were a bunch of barrels. They pried them open and found a mess of drugs: marijuana with other stuff (I always assumed opiates); they poured the pile in the middle of the floor and mixed it all together. They stuffed all their empty ammo cans with the doped weed. "A year later when I left we were still smoking the same stuff." He pulled 2 tours there. LD: has at least one kid in Viet Nam; after all the prostitutes he visited there, got the clap from the first woman he slept with back in the States.

Don - I was telling him about Bill C., being there in '69 "when it was bad." He snapped at me, "It was ALWAYS bad!" (He was there in '66.) He wouldn't say anything else about being there, and I have learned to never pry.

Gary - Three days before he was to come back to the States, got hit in a mortar attack; still had a plate in his head.

Walter - "If someone tells you he liked killing gooks [over there], he wasn't really there."

Thao - The second day I worked with Thao, he asked me angrily, "Why you leave!? Why you leave?!" I was baffled and thought he meant the day before. "Uh, the day was over?" He stayed in my face and kept asking, "Why you leave?!" Finally he left me alone, and another Vietnamese co-worker, Tri-Lee, said, "He dien," tapping his temple to mean crazy. He told me that when the U.S. pulled out, Thao, who had been trained by us as a fighter pilot, was imprisoned in a camp for the next three years. No wonder he was dien.


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These are just a few small details; "The 13th Valley," will give you a greater command of vocabulary and the importance of silently moving; Viet Nam movies will seem pretty stupid when you see big herds of loud men moving incautiously through the jungle. I saw some vets coming out of Forrest Gump pretty choked up, and I've heard from more than one source that many vets consider the scene with the "Whiskey Peter" (tracers) to be the most authentic they've seen in a movie.

If you have a good way with people, and can ask appropriate questions without prying and without judging, talking to real vets will be invaluable to you.

Other recommended book: "Viet Nam: The Other Side of Glory".

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urbanophelia

Thank you--I'm sure I will be able to incorporate what you've told me. I'd like to talk to veterans, I'm just afraid no matter how I go about it, it will seem prying. Plus a lot of them have PTSD, and talking can some times trigger it. It's the same problem I have run into when talking to holocaust survivors--the horror is something they (understandably) do not care to revisit.

Did you meet all these guys at work? Did you form a friendship first, or did you just straight out ask them?

I will read the book you recomended, if only to get a grasp of the terminology. It sounds good besides.

Thanks again.

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Queasy Dillo

I guess that was a poor choice of words. My mistake.

What I was trying to get across is the fact that the Hollywood interpretation of VN vets has been unfairly harsh. Unfortunately, buying into that version means judging all vets by the My Lai massacre, or thinking everybody who went over smoked dope, or came back and turned into a serial killer, and so forth. Like Barnsturm, I've talked to a fair number of vets and learned that this wasn't the case.

That was all I was trying to say. My apologies for any misconception.

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barnsturm

Yes, I worked in different jobs with everyone. I had relationship with them at the time before "prying". Knowing the terminology first was vital. It helps to make one seem sympathetic and non-invasive.

For instance, I worked for Mick for about ten months. The little we talked about represent patience waiting for an appropriate time to talk, then maybe two different 5-minute conversations. In his case, one was just after Memorial Day.

Me: "Hey, Mick, I just want to say, I appreciate your service back in Viet Nam. You guys probably don't hear that enough."

Mick: [mumbled affirmative response]

Me: "You were a Corpsman. When were you in country?"

[In country is correct terminology for when you were actually in Viet Nam.]

Mick: "'68 and '69."

Me: [tells funny story from Bill C. about the drugs in Da Nang]

Mick: "I was at a place called Mike's Hill during the Tet. A third of my g**-d*** company died."

Me: "Whoa."

[End of conversation.]

Anything AFTER that would have been prying. But then, over time, little things would slip out. He told me that at one base they got mortared every day at 11 am and 3 pm. "You could set your watch by it."

Mick's wife brought in his picture album from there. I was struck by how young he was and all the other corpsmen he was with.

Honestly, I think vets would like little vents for the pressure to escape. A respectful listener provides that. At another job, George, who was Recon in V.N., told me over time that he had been captured and escaped twice, and once spent 5 months getting back to our side. I DEFINITELY did not pry into his details. By knowing enough of what that probably entailed (hiding all day, stealing food at night, probably strangling or knifing someone in the jungle when in danger of getting caught, etc.,) I figured if he wanted to talk, he would. But later on, he brought in his picture of when he was in country. He bore a striking resemblance to Martin Sheen's character from Apocolypse Now, contrasted to me seeing him as a big hippy. It just seems like these guys, now that they are approaching 60 years old, are saying, "That was a horrible time, but I appreciate that someone can let me talk about it in my own way and in my own time." (Or why else would they then bring in pictures, share little stories, memories, etc.?)

On the other hand, my friend Howard, who was in country '65-'66, hasn't shared one tiny detail about VN, just that he was a Marine. If the fish won't bite, cast somewhere else.

You are right, it is a delicate subject to approach. I wouldn't worry as much about PTSD, though. Most vets aren't whacko snipers just looking for their clock tower. They are normal men who got the shit scared out of them on a daily basis when they were 18 and are trying to live normally now.

Considering the plethora of Viet Nam books starting to come out on grocery store shelves, I'd say that more men are wanting to share their experience. You might want to post an inquiry on a Viet Nam or general veterans forum. Say that you are a writer looking for more information on the experience and ask for people who are willing to share. I'd guess that out of the many dozen who will read the request, at least a few will want to talk, even if just to get things off their chest. Also, just read in the background what they are writing.

Links:

http://grunt.com/scuttlebutt/corps-s...tnam/index.asp
http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache...l%22+tet&hl=en (References 'Mike's Hill', mentioned earlier)
http://www.vietvet.org/

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