playstation60

I was wondering if anyone knew of any good sites for finding out what water ways will lead deeper into the United States from the west and east coast? The water ways need to be deep enough to accommodate a military vessel that is ocean worthy. Not sure exactly how deep that needs to be.


Ben

Queasy Dillo

There are two that come to mind:

First are the Great Lakes, which start at the Atlantic and go west. As far as I know it's possible to move shipping traffic in and out of the Lakes via a series of locks.

The other is the Mississippi River, which runs up from the Gulf of Mexico. I know for a fact it can handle heavy military or commercial traffic.

Both are patrolled by the U.S. Coast Guard, which operates some big stuf there.

If you're looking for routes running east to west I'm afraid you may be out of luck.

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teflon

US Navy frigates and landing ships often enter the Great Lakes from St.Lawrence Seaway on publicity tours or US Naval Reserve orientation programs. They visit every major port in the Lakes, all the way to Duluth Min. The frigates are smaller than cargo ships from Europe that go to the port of Chicago and Toledo the same route as the frigates.


You'll need to check Google for the river of Columbia upbound traffic in the West.

Regards

T

mammamaia

the columbia is the only really huge/deep river going from west to east... but it doesn't go all that far... and won't allow passage of deep-draft vessels for any great distance... not like the great lakes system...

it starts in canada and only turns west at richland, about 2/3 or the way across the washington/oregon border... it joins the snake river, which extends east into idaho from its source in wyoming's yellowstone park, but because of dams and locks, it's not navigable by large craft beyond the bonneville dam... craft that go further must pass through the locks there... tugs and barges go beyond to lewiston, idaho, but they're shallow draft craft... the larger military vessels aren't...

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playstation60

Here's the purpose, and maybe it will help with rivers that can be used. I am writing a military novel series that involves a full scale invasion of the United States. I was thinking that an interesting way of moving a larger amount of troops directly into the interior of the country would be to use the rivers that are all over the place. I am just researching the possibility. I may use the Great Lakes venue, I was hoping to find something in the S.F. area that would lead deeper into the western portion of the U.S. I am not talking about the rivers having to accommodate a large battle cruiser or an aircraft carrier. Probably just some smaller frigates and troop carriers.



Ben

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teflon

I suggest ruling out troop carriers, unless the US has been weakened in your scenario. What I have dealt with is illegal, large-scale immigration aboard foreign-registered freighters. Sometimes the Federal Joint Task Forces 1 through 4 helped the INS and Customs to do surprize inspections from Coasr Guard Stations Cleveland or Bay City and discover 10-30 illegals if not hiddden in the containers or cargo holds then as fake ship mates. I always wondered how many illegals were NOT caught.

How is this angle on the invasion?

playstation60

Without leaking too many of the details out on the invasion. The U.S. will have plenty of other things to deal with, besides troop carriers travelling up their waterways. I have plenty up my sleeves for the whole scenario. *laughs diabolically*.

If you want more details, I'd be willing to discuss them via email or private message. Don't want to give out too much in the open forums.


Ben

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teflon

I wan to comment rather than take a peek. I must build a credible premise for the troop carriers traveling up the US rivers unmolested. The scenario allowing for that must include the US Government in disarray, the local governments broke, etc etc, no law enforcement, etc etc

playstation60

There is a very good reason for troops ships transversing the country via it's waterways. The U.S. government is definately not going to give approval for it, but it has it's hands more than full. And this is also to say that the ships are not going to be harrassed in some means.


Ben

wudstok77

Just don't try the Rio Grande River, at least in New Mexico, right now there's not much water and the supply in the Elephant Butte Reservoir is nearly depleted.

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playstation60

Thanks for the head's up on that Wudstok.

I'm not looking for complete passage through the entire width of the U.S. I am mainly looking for a way to have troop ships enter from the sea, and get further inland, quicker than marching. Maybe to reach some key cities a little further inland than the outlying states.


Ben

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playstation60

The way things are sitting right now, I will be using entry points via Astoria, WA, following the snake river east, the mighty Mississippi river via New Orleans (at least I think I'll have that as a starting spot.), and finally the Great Lakes. Haven't determined the exact entry point for the great lakes yet though.

I wanted to thank everyone for their opinions and information.


Ben

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barnsturm

The geography of the West Coast doesn't really allow for a water-supported invasion inland. The San Francisco Bay leads only as far inland as Sacramento. The rivers supplying the delta there are too small for ships or even boats. I've fished the delta and rafted the rivers further upstram; a white-water raft is about the biggest thing you're going to get there. All up and down California you get the same problem. Oregon and Washington are similar, except for the Columbia River. But everything on the West Coast ends in small mountian ranges not too far inland.

kerpoe

Columbia and the Great Lakes

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barnsturm

An assault on the Columbia River would get you inland about 350 miles tops, leaving the majority of the Pacific West untouched. Sure, you could assault this small area, but to what greater objective? Control of the West?! Look at a MAP! What would you do about Idaho/Oregon/Northern California/Nevada/Montana/Colorado/Wyoming/Dakotas/etc?

In reality, an attack on the US mainland could not have control of the majority of our land area as a goal. Rather, key population points and military structures would be your objective.

http://www.nwp.usace.army.mil/pm/lcr/home.asp

I asked my Resident Military Expert for advice: "I'm on a writers' forum where some _____ is suggesting that the way to arrange a sea assault on the US Mainland from the Pacific would be the Columbia River (Oregon/Washington border) which could get you inland a grand total of about 350 miles.

"From all your reading, what book(s) would you suggest the writer could peruse to analyze various ways to attack the US and their ramifications?"

His answer:

"I don't think a book on the subject exists. Maybe you could find one in an old Japanese library.

"I would suggest possibly the Marine manuals on amphibious landings. They're the experts, they would know about the tides, etc. different things to plan for. One such thing is to try not to attack where there are major US Navy naval bases, places where they might keep, for example, several aircraft carriers at any given time. Say, Portland, at the mouth of the Columbia River. Also, hydro electric dams will impede the inland progress of the otherwise irresistable assault."

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