Thread: God as the bad guy

Hi, I’m trying to gauge opinion (and incidentally make up my own mind) on representation of God as a more villainous figure in fiction.

It is a facet as opposed to a main thrust in a story, but it does interest me personally quite a lot in theory.

Naively, I am really not sure how controversial it is as a subject so my question is this: do people feel very strongly about this in the context of fictional work, or do they just not care?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

I don't specifically recall any modern stories where God has a dark side or is all out evil. In medieval fiction it is common for the villain to be a corrupt clergyman, but this is not a direct assault on God. Rather it is a flawed human in the service of God. You could set that kind of story in the modern world. Use any of those TV evangelists who got caught up in scandal as a model.

There are modern variations on the Job story where people wonder why a good God allowed a bad thing to happen to them. This idea can be taken much further and the character can temporarily loose their faith in a good God, but the story must turn right in the end. The Greeks and Romans had a whole pantheon of gods, some of them good and some bad. The Greeks, in particular, liked to tell stories of humans as the playthings of mischievous gods.

The Old Testament God has a vengeful side. In the stories of Noah and Lot (Sodom and Gomorrah), God does some pretty nasty things in the name of doing good. If you took those as models, I do not think people would be too upset.

Or you could view Sodom and pre-Flood world like God putting down a rabid dog.

God as the enemy is featured in Star Trek V and Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy. In order to make God villianous, you would have to make it not God. An indifferent Lovecraftian god could be plausible, but would not make sense in light of his holy texts not calling for mutants and human sacrifice.

^ +1 on Pullman, though Pullman's was more on the Vatican, still, it touched on God as a sort of villain.

There's also Legion, the movie starring Paul Bettany. True, God there wasn't bad, but it touched on God as a sort of antagonist, as he lost hope in the human race and decided to destroy them.

Another example would be Constantine, another movie, this time starring Keanu Reeves. In this one, God was more like leaning towards a neutral position, but you have to admit, *spoiler alert* Him sending Gabriel to eliminate Constantine out of the equation at that hospital scene showed that God was against the protagonist, making him rather the villain.

Having said these, God as a villain isn't a new concept, and should be acceptable to many as you're writing fiction. Of course, His portrayal as the villain should be made with tact, so as not to be offensive to people.

Be careful. If you're going to do this don't use Allah, Muhammad, or Quran unless you like to live on the edge.

Originally Posted by Woodroam

Be careful. If you're going to do this don't use Allah, Muhammad, or Quran unless you like to live on the edge.

I definitely had no intention of going down this route!

Thankyou very much for your responses, very much appreciated!

Actually, I see no problem in creating an image of God as an antagonist:
He demands servitude but gives us free will as a sort of twisted game. "I give you freedom, but if you use it in any way other than what I see fit you will burn in hell."
He has his angels who aren't even allowed to question or doubt him. Lackeys that he sends out either as assassins or couriers but mostly they smite people, or demons, or entire cities even.
All this is masked behind an image of love to justify servitude.
He can't explain why he does what he does or demands what he demands because ultimately His greater good doesn't benefit us. We aren't really included in His plan. Instead he makes us believe that his ways are mysterious and he's just that much better. Don't ask why, you wouldn't understand. Simply trust in Him and remain faithful.

Then you have Lucifer. Lucifer was his closest angel, his best servant and loyal follower. Contrary to popular myth, Lucifer was at first only standing up for his rights. He didn't want to bow before Adam and he didn't want to serve anyone but God, who he did acknowledge as his rightful superior. It was only when God rejected Lucifer's plight that he began to oppose God. He was basically the farmhand who simply didn't want to be treated as if he were inferior to the pigs he looked after. He wanted some recognition for his eons of servitude, his rightful place as the Angel of Light. Instead God chose his new pet as the favorite and basically told Lucifer to sod off. Lucifer gathers a third of all the angels on his side and they oppose this insult, the remaining angels fight them, their own brothers, because God demands it. Then God casts them down from heaven and into the underworld, knowingly allowing them to spread across the earth as demons and taint humanity. He doesn't care. He has devised a species that reproduces at an alarming rate and no matter how many are corrupted, he's still getting enough souls.

Then you have heaven, which is really just a collection of all the most compliant, controllable servants, all convinced that his Master Plan is awesome and willing to give everything for him. Having reached Paradise only strengthens their conviction so now he can pretty much convince them of anything, how ever wrong it may sound. He's basically breeding the perfect army of goons and throwing all the rejects back into the furnace.

After reading the Biblical God between the lines it's hard NOT to see him as an antagonist, not to mention the greatest enemy of democracy and freedom ever.

Catch 22, Yosarian denies his existence and then says how if he did exist he would have to be twisted to make the world the way it is, but more eloquently than that, follows the wonderful line "That's not the God I don't believe in!"

What God? The Christian God? Allah? A Pagan God? Many Gods in polytheistic religions were reflections of humans, complete with bad sides (think Greek and Norse pantheons). Casting a modern, monotheistic God worshiped by hundreds of millions of people as an antagonist probably won't help sell your book.

You could portray God as a master manipulator. He made the human body, made sex pleasant, but also denied us freely expressing and enjoying it. Who knows what he really plans for us.

I like Wolfie's synopsis. Why not see his plan as making us sheep? We already view that idea on earth as a bad practice.

I think it all depends on how you represnt him/her/it. People might not like it if you portray him/her/it going around impregnating innocent virgins. Oh wait hang on...

Sorry joking aside I am dealing with a similar issue. I am working on a book where many (fictitious) religions come into conflict. One of them (the main religion of the world I am writing) is a monotheistic religion that is all sweetness and light on the surface, a little like christianity. This god however is one of many deities venerated in one of the other religions on the planet yet he is considered an evil deity by thes followers of this polytheistic religion. I am currently working through the conflict. I think people will see the parallels but I am not going to be too blatant about it. I hope that in this way I avoid any retribution form religious fanatics!

Originally Posted by Woodroam

Be careful. If you're going to do this don't use Allah, Muhammad, or Quran unless you like to live on the edge.

Frank Herbert did it. And with the current state of affairs in this post 911 world wouldn't using Allah as the antagonist make the story more popular in western cultures?

God gave us the freedom of choice...so choose.

If, for example, you were to write God into your story as a vengeful narcissist could that not be the catalyst to have the masses flock to their local bookstore for your story?

If you do your research you could easily make any argument you wish...just do your homework and make certain that your portrayal of God is backed up with air tight proof.

There's plenty of things in the holy books themselves that can easily be used for a portrayal of 'God' as bad. Wolfie has shown one way it could be done. Or if you looked at the Islamist faith, you could find plenty of rape and other things.
Research is your friend on all these things. Then you can use it for whatever type of story you like.

Btw : There may be plenty of people you'd turn off, but there's also plenty of people who'd love it (I wouldn't be one of those though).

I would certainly be interested in reading your piece as it does sound intriguing.
Although not making God a villain. Dan Brown did stir up a lot of controversy with Da Vinci Code by writing about Jesus was man, not the Son of God. Let's put it this way. Any religious story, especially a controversial one, will cause rumblings... but when well written, always end up the most popular ones.

Ever heard of the Archons or Gnostic Christianity, look 'em up, it'll give you a pretty good idea of God as a villain. Interesting concept as well, if different.