Thread: Working fantasy-creatures: centaurs?

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Originally Posted by excuseme

- Having a human-overbody ON a horse-body is the most impractical thing in the world. Not only would they probably fall over forward, but also it would be a big burden while running but also while standing still, because it would provide a huge weight. Might moving the humanbody further back on the horsebody might be a good start? Or simply bend it backwards?

The size and weight of a horse body could hold a human body up easily. Remember that the center of weight is the front legs, so that means the horse's entire flank and rear are providing counterweight. If you are still concerned though, maybe you could try making the human lean back a little, so you have a kind-of standing-snake pose. Still, consider that we can stand up and run just fine, and we don't have half a horse sticking out of our backs.

-Centaurs are half horses and have hooves and are fast runners, which means they are suited for open land and not forests. This makes feeding a problem though:
Horses eat mostly grass and plants, which can be found in an open land, but a centaur can't bow down and reach the plants (they will FALL, if nothing else).

Again, I think that the counterweight takes care of this. Also, centaurs have hands, allowing them to pull things from trees. Deer have hooves AND great big catch-all antlers, and they'll go through forest, eat from trees etc. Horses themselves may not be naturally suited to forests, but I wouldn't worry about hooves. They're not a problem. If they are still concerning though, think the size of a moose! (these things have hooves like giant iron snowshoes! ^^)

I had an idea that they might pick things from busches and trees, considering that they're pretty tall, but that means they have to live pretty close to a forest after all. Predators can easily hide in forests. Might this be a good reason for the centaurs to have weapons? They don't need them for hunting if they eat plats, after all.

This one will have to be your call, because the centaurs as your describing can be this way or could not be this way. It all depends on whether or not you want your centaurs to be warriors or not. In fact, you haven't even indicated to what degree your centaurs are intelligent. If you want your centaurs to be peaceful, remember that there are a huge number of reasons why a particular animal can be safe from predators, or why predators are absent. If the area is geographically isolated (by a ravine, great river, an island, some sort of surrounding cliff-structure) or if there happens to be some sort of relationship between the local top-predator and the centaurs (early wolves would hang around human camps, scavenging food after the tribe moved on).

- I'm having problems deciding about the body-hair a centaur should have. A horse's body is covered in short hair, but a human's body is much balder. Long hair on the head and pretty much body-hair, like a hairy man, might be an option. But I don't want them to look like a pile of hair either. What do you say?

I think if you gave the human a hairy lower back, and a hairy line running up the bottom of the belly, it would take care of realistic hair. Maybe also give them hairy forearms, shoulders and neck... this is really more of a style problem than a believability or quality problem. It just depends on how hairy you want your horse-people to be.

- Practically it's two bodies with multiple vital organs, so where would the organs be placed?

I seriously think you should avoid this one. There's no logical way that nature can justify having two separate body-cages with different (or double) critical organs in both. And, if you get rid of either body-cage you drastically change what the centaur is going to look like. Centaurs are known enough that nobody will really question whether or not it can be, but if you start talking organs then the reader will be confronted with knowing that it cannot be.

EDIT: or, you could give them a narrow nothing-but-tubes body! It could make them look a bit creepy maybe... almost snake-like with little shoulder or pec strength.

Sorry for double-posting, but I had to share this... My first contribution to the meme-world. ^^

Originally Posted by Slugfly

There's no logical way that nature can justify having two separate body-cages with different (or double) critical organs in both. And, if you get rid of either body-cage you drastically change what the centaur is going to look like. Centaurs are known enough that nobody will really question whether or not it can be, but if you start talking organs then the reader will be confronted with knowing that it cannot be.

EDIT: or, you could give them a narrow nothing-but-tubes body! It could make them look a bit creepy maybe... almost snake-like with little shoulder or pec strength.

Several animals have multiple hearts or oddly configured/other number of lungs than we have. One heart and two lungs is accepted as normal, but not for all species.

Running a horse on a human-sized heart and lungs is impossible; however, horse organs could supply a centaur just fine. My only concern with horse organs powering a centaur is that of the human brain. A horse's brain is about 1/3 the size of a human's and 1/4 of all the blood in the human body is pumped directly into the human brain very soon after being oxygenated in the lungs. So, considering the distance between a horse's lungs and the human centaur brain... I figured I'd put in a secondary set of pipes in the human torso for oxygenating and pumping blood to the brain.

The brain itself would have to be a bit bigger than a human's to control the extra weight--both in terms of motor cortices and in 'lower' brain functions from the brain stem and cerebellum. My guess is less than a pound of difference, probably less than a half-pound.

There is no reason to get rid of the pectoral girdle. It supports all the articulations of the chest and arms and anchors the back and neck muscles. On the contrary, a centaur could have immense shoulder and pectoral strength and would probably need both.

Figuring the anatomy of centaurs is a 'devil is in the details' issue. Applied to writing, it can add a lot of interest for readers and a depth to the world. While not a necessary additive to fiction, it's appreciated when authors go the extra mile to add some spark in a shelf full of The Great Mystical Aloof (Hottie) Centaur (available with Bow and Mystical Powers).

Sieg, I'm with you on every point, but I wasn't saying that there's no case of multiple-organs in nature, rather that there's no case of multiple rib-cages (a protected shell filled with multiple organs). Animals generally have either one long body-cage (like a lobster or fish) or a single cage housing all the major organs (mammals, reptiles, birds) or none (octopus, worms and other squishies).

I think that if a centaur could actually work, something at least close would have already worked. We haven't even brought in the fact that everything of higher order than fish have at most (and usually exactly) four limbs. It's evolutionarily efficient. I'm not arguing against centaurs in any way, but just saying that the more accurately you try to justify their existence, the more closely you'll be confronted with their impossibility.

With all that said, I think that if organs need to be known about, I'd go with the page-1 suggestion recommending putting the heart in the human-cage and the lungs and stomach (and other goo) in the horse-cage. Or possibly go with two hearts or two stomachs... I don't think I'd go with two hearts AND two stomachs though.

I appreciate all the help so much! C: I'm sorry I can't answer more often, but every bit help me! *passes cookies around*

I know making centaurs totally logical is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but I love working with details! Something tells me I should have paid attention in biological-class though.

Animals generally have either one long body-cage (like a lobster or fish) or a single cage housing all the major organs (mammals, reptiles, birds) or none (octopus, worms and other squishies).

I'm getting very interesting mental images of centaurs with the same width around the body from head to tail now. Almost like a snake with legs. xD But you're right, and that's going to take the rest of the week for me to think about!

Originally Posted by Slugfly

Sorry for double-posting, but I had to share this... My first contribution to the meme-world. ^^

As for this, I just laughed loud enough I scared my dog. xD


I realized I forgot a question last time I replied: Mothers feeding their children. The females centaurs usually have human-breasts, but that seems very unpractical, since the children probably aren't tall enough to reach. Lying down every time your child needs food might be dangerous, since it takes some time for a horse to stand up. On the other hand, having a human-torso complicates the way a centaur could feed from the stomach-area on the horse-body. I'm getting funny mental images of this. Any input?

Could nurse from either. Mine nurse from both. Whichever set gets used more produces more (just like in actual breasts). What's good to keep in mind is how much an infant horse eats though. Suckling takes time (10-20 minutes for humans, probably twice that for a human mouth on a horse's body). Also, infant horses are proportioned very different from infant humans and babies might not accommodate the neck area of colts well, so it might do better to make the human baby half larger or the horse smaller.

My centaur babies are proportioned more like toddlers with alert senses, good vision, able to stand and quite limb-intensive (long arms and legs). They do not have 'baby fat' around the human portions and therefore are susceptible to cold. Centaur babies are born after about a year of gestation (much like horses but sometimes just a couple weeks longer).