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02-04-2010, 10:44 AM
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#1
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Prolific Writer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Makati City Philippines
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When you catch an adjective, kill it.
When you catch an adjective, kill it. Mark Twain said...
...then it seems Stephen King has a problem with adverbs. And another writer has a problem with nouns. I forgot her name though. What do they all mean?
I want to improve my writing so I'm really curious about the stuff. While browsing through a bookstore today I found the book by Ben Yagoda, I don't have any money, so I couldn't buy it, but it won't let me sleep! I have to know. Help!
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02-04-2010, 11:48 AM
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#2
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Wordsmith
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bandit Country
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Posts: 5,415
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Someone should have killed Mark Twain instead.
Stephen King is a hypocrite. He advocates a no-adverb policy, and then he goes and litters his books with them.
Whoever has a problem with nouns should be kicked in the lower extremities.
All this bullshit boils down to one thing: Someone trying to sound like they know what they're talking about. To those people, I say: "Make me a list of the words I'm not allowed to use". Then, watch as I take a lighter to it.
You improve your writing by reading -- and writing, of course. Read any book and you'll find all of the above. They're words. Saying they can't be used is like telling an artist that yellow is garish and shouldn't be used.
It's all baloney.
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02-04-2010, 12:51 PM
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#3
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Prolific Writer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Makati City Philippines
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You think so? I'm new to the aesthetics of writing. But I'm still curious as to why they said that?
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"The only reason people can say whatever the hell they want in the internet is nobody can send a punch through a DSL." (Tech Mag)
My Blog: Business and Random Craziness
http://darknitesdreammachine.blogspot.com/
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02-04-2010, 01:08 PM
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#4
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Writing Machine
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Back in hell...better known as Texas
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,977
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Overkill is what I think they meant....new writers seem to over do the adjectives....
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On the one hand Nature urges us on to this desire by associating it with the noblest, most useful, and pleasant of all her acts; and on the other hand she allows us to condemn it and flee from it as from a shameless and immodest deed, to blush at it and recommend abstinence. Are we not indeed brutes to call the very act that created us, brutish?
~Montaigne~ Jeg fortsatt elsker deg
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02-04-2010, 02:22 PM
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#5
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Wordsmith
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bandit Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darknite_johanne
You think so? I'm new to the aesthetics of writing. But I'm still curious as to why they said that?
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As Terri said, new writers tend to overdo it. They stack their prose up with multitudes of adverbs -- including dialogue tags -- because they don't know how to convey meaning without them. However, there are times when adverbs are needed, so that's why I say that you should take this advice with a grain of salt. As long as you don't overdo it, using adverbs and adjectives is fine. Now, as far as nouns go, I don't know why anyone would say you can't use them. That's just ludicrous. |
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02-04-2010, 02:39 PM
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#6
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Adept Writer
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Mexico
Gender: Female
Posts: 842
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Sam, I think a problem with nouns might have been pronouns. Another common problem with novice writers is using a character's name once and then using nothing but pronouns for the next 100 pages.
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"I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best." -- Marilyn Monroe
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02-04-2010, 03:56 PM
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#7
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Best Seller
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NZ
Gender: Male
Posts: 683
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I'm speedily thinking that lowly darknite curiously wonders what is glaringly obviously astetically unpleasing in this incredibly delightful sentance.
Get the picture?
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I pointed to the cover, which said 'best-selling' and not 'best-writing', and recommended she drop creative writing class and study sales. - Robert Kiyosaki
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02-04-2010, 04:05 PM
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#8
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Adept Writer
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Mexico
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredMormon
I'm speedily thinking that lowly darknite curiously wonders what is glaringly obviously astetically unpleasing in this incredibly delightful sentance.
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You made my brain hurt.
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"I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best." -- Marilyn Monroe
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02-04-2010, 06:05 PM
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#9
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Mentor
Join Date: May 2007
Location: E. Sussex U.K.
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I have a thing about the word just, I can offer a logical justification by saying it has so many different meanings and all of them have more precise alternatives, but I think what it really does is make me stop, think about what I am saying and make it more precise. Maybe they are doing something similar.
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02-04-2010, 07:33 PM
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#10
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Ink Slinger
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: On a pedestal of my own making
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam W
Someone should have killed Mark Twain instead.
Stephen King is a hypocrite. He advocates a no-adverb policy, and then he goes and litters his books with them.
Whoever has a problem with nouns should be kicked in the lower extremities.
All this bullshit boils down to one thing: Someone trying to sound like they know what they're talking about. To those people, I say: "Make me a list of the words I'm not allowed to use". Then, watch as I take a lighter to it.
You improve your writing by reading -- and writing, of course. Read any book and you'll find all of the above. They're words. Saying they can't be used is like telling an artist that yellow is garish and shouldn't be used.
It's all baloney.
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Sam, you're taking things meant to be guidelines and responding to them as if they were rules.
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Originally Posted by Ilasir Maroa
Long Liver the printed word!
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02-04-2010, 09:02 PM
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#11
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Mentor
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Heltonville, IN
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All rules are guidelines when it comes to art. That's what makes it art and not truth at all. Thre are no rules to govern beauty--that's why the definition of beauty changes so much from one era, culture and person to another.
Yes, guidelines state that one should avoid adverbs in favor of more precise, active verbs; that one should avoid the overuse of... any literary device/part of speech. It's like making a pizza with nothing but sauce or with pepperoni inches deep and all over the floor. Overuse makes for unhappy meal. No big deal, just tweak the recipe and see if its edible.
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02-04-2010, 09:33 PM
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#12
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Wordsmith
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Out in The Bush, Queensland, Australia, far from the madding crowd.
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Off Topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olly Buckle
I have a thing about the word just, I can offer a logical justification by saying it has so many different meanings and all of them have more precise alternatives, but I think what it really does is make me stop, think about what I am saying and make it more precise. Maybe they are doing something similar.
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A huge proportion of words in English have multiple meanings. That doesn’t stop us using them and in fact can at times be a source of amusement.
As to precision, I think that while being more precise is all very well, there’s much to be said for using the imprecise word. It teaches others.
“A just law.”
Depending of course on the context, isn’t that more colourful/writerly than saying “A right and proper law?”
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02-04-2010, 11:52 PM
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#13
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Prolific Writer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Makati City Philippines
Gender: Male
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredMormon
I'm speedily thinking that lowly darknite curiously wonders what is glaringly obviously astetically unpleasing in this incredibly delightful sentance.
Get the picture?
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Haha! Big Laughs! Yeah, I get the picture. Nice.
__________________
"The only reason people can say whatever the hell they want in the internet is nobody can send a punch through a DSL." (Tech Mag)
My Blog: Business and Random Craziness
http://darknitesdreammachine.blogspot.com/
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02-05-2010, 01:40 AM
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#14
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Mentor
Join Date: May 2007
Location: E. Sussex U.K.
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,658
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Quote:
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Depending of course on the context, isn’t that more colourful/writerly than saying “A right and proper law?”
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But not as good as an equitable law, that's the point, not that there is really anything wrong with just, but that there is always something better than anything used casually and having a marker causes one to stop, remember that and try to think of it from time to time.
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02-05-2010, 04:15 AM
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#15
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Wordsmith
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Out in The Bush, Queensland, Australia, far from the madding crowd.
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olly Buckle
having a marker causes one to stop, remember that and try to think of it from time to time.
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You should of been a teacher. I've noticed when I'm writing that I now stop and think about its use. I'll prolly be more selective in future.
But I'm not going back to edit all my posts. That'd be just too much.
Last edited by The Backward OX; 02-05-2010 at 04:20 AM..
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