Thread: Self publish a book then move to a traditional publisher?

Originally Posted by shadowwalker

I see too many people thinking that self-publishing is some kind of short-cut to a commercial contract. Too many people looking at the exceptions as if they were the rule. People really need a reality check.

There are how many? 150000? self published books a year on just one self-publishing site. And what percentage of successful authors used this route to gain a commercial contract? Surely arithmetic isn't dead.

Originally Posted by Rustgold

There are how many? 150000? self published books a year on just one self-publishing site. And what percentage of successful authors used this route to gain a commercial contract? Surely arithmetic isn't dead.

It would seem to be, if one goes by some self-publishing gurus.

Originally Posted by shadowwalker

Again, why would a publisher want a book that's already been published?

Because they'll make money.

If your book is successful, they can buy the rights for a known product with a fan-base. If your book isn't successful but does have a good story that they believe they can sell, they're no worse off than if they'd bought it from a normal query.

If you write short stories, magazines usually want to be the first to publish it. But there's no reason why you can't submit a novel you've self-published. For example, there was that fantasy novel a few years ago whose author self-published and was later picked up by a publisher and a Hollywood movie deal; I can't remember the name as I've never read it.

This is particularly true if you only release it as an e-book, since they can still have exclusive print rights.

Originally Posted by movieman

Because they'll make money.

If your book is successful, they can buy the rights for a known product with a fan-base. If your book isn't successful but does have a good story that they believe they can sell, they're no worse off than if they'd bought it from a normal query.

If you write short stories, magazines usually want to be the first to publish it. But there's no reason why you can't submit a novel you've self-published. For example, there was that fantasy novel a few years ago whose author self-published and was later picked up by a publisher and a Hollywood movie deal; I can't remember the name as I've never read it.

This is particularly true if you only release it as an e-book, since they can still have exclusive print rights.

The problem is that the readers already have it. The publisher might make a few additional sales, but enough to even break even on the costs of editing (and yes, they will run it through the ringer just like any book) and printing? Unless the book is a phenomenal success and you clearly have more books of the same quality in you, there's no reason for a publisher to spend money on that book.

Yes, as you noted, it does happen. But again - that's the exception, not the rule.

Originally Posted by shadowwalker

Again, why would a publisher want a book that's already been published? And why would you spend all that time and money to self-publish if you really want a commercial publishing contract? If a commercial contract is your ultimate goal, why not spend that time (and no money) actually working that route?

I self-published the first book in a series and it was picked up for publication when I submitted it to a traditional publishing house a year later.

Originally Posted by Sam W

I self-published the first book in a series and it was picked up for publication when I submitted it to a traditional publishing house a year later.

Which is great - but again, anecdotal. (And it was the first book in a series.) Is that what typically/usually/normally happens? No.

Self-publishing is like the California gold rush - people rushed out there expecting to make a fortune, ignoring the odds or betting on being the exceptions. And it cost most of them dearly for the reality check.

Originally Posted by shadowwalker

Which is great - but again, anecdotal. (And it was the first book in a series.) Is that what typically/usually/normally happens? No.

Surely you agree that the state of the industry is hardly static, though. That is why big publishing houses are said to be 'traditional' publishing and self-publishing is a newer arena so what is typical/usual/normal is shifting as well. We may not be 100% certain in what direction it is changing yet but there are options now that authors didn't have 'traditionally'. I agree, no one should see self-publishing as a quick and easy route to a fortune but from what I understand publishing through a big house isn't going to automatically take you there, either.

It would seem that staying informed and updated on both options would make more sense than dismissing any publishing possibility out of hand or assuming a certain outcome, good or bad.

Originally Posted by Foxee

Surely you agree that the state of the industry is hardly static, though. That is why big publishing houses are said to be 'traditional' publishing and self-publishing is a newer arena so what is typical/usual/normal is shifting as well. We may not be 100% certain in what direction it is changing yet but there are options now that authors didn't have 'traditionally'. I agree, no one should see self-publishing as a quick and easy route to a fortune but from what I understand publishing through a big house isn't going to automatically take you there, either.

It would seem that staying informed and updated on both options would make more sense than dismissing any publishing possibility out of hand or assuming a certain outcome, good or bad.

Actually, the big publishing houses are called 'commercial'; the ones calling them 'traditional' tend to be self-publishers who want to make them seem antiquated, or those who are too new to understand publishing terminology. Agreed, however, that epublishing now allows self-publishers options they didn't have before - that doesn't make it a wise decision in every case. And no one that I know of has ever guaranteed success through commercial publishing - in fact, the 'hardships' involved are typically noted. That's being realistic.

I'm not dismissing self-publishing - I'm only dismissing those who try to make it seem like the 'easy' alternative (or worse, the 'smart way to go'). If it sounds too good to be true...

Originally Posted by shadowwalker

The problem is that the readers already have it.

The e-book readers already have it. Most people still read print books, and publishers pretty much control that market.

If Stephen King self-published an e-book tomorrow, do you think publishers wouldn't be lining up to buy the print rights?

Yes, as you noted, it does happen. But again - that's the exception, not the rule.

Strawman. No-one has been saying that it was.

99% of self-published novels will never get a trade publishing deal. But 99% of novels have never got a trade-publishing deal and have previously languished in a trunk in the author's attic.

BTW, I was just reading another post on another forum by a Spanish thriller writer who's signed a trade publishing deal for his self-published books with one of the biggest Spanish-language book publishers.

Originally Posted by shadowwalker

I'm not dismissing self-publishing - I'm only dismissing those who try to make it seem like the 'easy' alternative (or worse, the 'smart way to go'). If it sounds too good to be true...

Ah, I suppose it's the number of times that you've repeated discouraging remarks about self-publishing in this thread that makes it seem that way.

Originally Posted by Foxee

Ah, I suppose it's the number of times that you've repeated discouraging remarks about self-publishing in this thread that makes it seem that way.

Only as many times as people act like it's a godsend for all writers... It's the other side of the coin. You call it discouraging, I call it realistic.

Originally Posted by shadowwalker

Only as many times as people act like it's a godsend for all writers... It's the other side of the coin. You call it discouraging, I call it realistic.

I don't think that overall people are treating it in that way. You're always going to have some that think publishing will be easy whether it's self-publishing or 'other people publishing' (how's that for a new designation). Of course, there are plenty of people who think that writing is going to be easy, too.

You can only really smack people with reality so many times before you have to shrug and let them find out for themselves.

Originally Posted by Foxee

You can only really smack people with reality so many times before you have to shrug and let them find out for themselves.

True. I really only try to comment when there is blatant misinformation or truly misleading information. I blame it on the gurus who have spread this stuff, and others then pick it up as if it were gospel. It's a knee-jerk reaction on my part, and happens in a lot of discussions, whether it has to do with self-publishing or anything else. I see something I know is wrong or overstated and I just have to respond.

You grow out of that.

Originally Posted by KarlR

You grow out of that.

Haven't in 57 years. Might be too late.