Thread: What- no Shakespeare?

Maybe this is just because they make me read it for school, but...
I think Shakespear is overrated. I enjoyed Hamlet and Romeo + Juliet, and I think the way he writes is beautiful, but I think his storylines are overrated, and it's just people dying in weird ways and that's supposed to be artsy. Like Titus, for example. Rape, stab, rape, stab.

There, I said it.

Best Shakespearian line: Mischief, thou art afoot. Take thou what course thou wilt.

Originally Posted by buyjupiter03

HEY! I started reading him at, oh jeez, 11. Started with the heavy stuff too, King Lear, MacBeth, and Hamlet. Loved it, absolutely loved it.

However, as I've read more scholarly articles about the sources of Shakespeare's plays, he ripped off quite a bit. Maybe he changed the place name or a couple of character names. I'm not saying all of the plays were like that, but some were.

Has anyone seen the Reduced Shakespeare Company? That is a hilarious take on the works.

I'm a foreigner(Belguim) and I learned pretty much my English through him. He's (and other autor's) writings have inspired me to write myself so I see him as a very important poet. Without Hamlet we wouldn't have 'To be or not to be! and who hasn't read his 18th Sonnet in Midnightsummer Dream(Shall I compare thee to a summer's day, thou are....)

I'm a foreigner(Belguim)

This is the world wide web, there are no foreigners.


Using some one else's story line was normal then, much as classical composers used each others themes, it was not seen as ripping off but as a homage to the other person, it was what you did with it that counted.

I think Shakespeare's work is excellent literature. However, his plays were not written to be read and studied in schools but to be seen performed on the stage. My favourite play is Richard II. I have seen a few stage productions: King Lear, Hamlet, Macbeth, Richard II, Henry IV and The Merry Wives of Windsor. And I can't wait to see another play. Also, the film industry rarely does theatre justice. I have found film productions of Hamlet especially disappointing. One delightful exception is Much Ado About Nothing.

I have studied Shakespeare at the university with great pleasure. 12 years after graduation, I still read him for pleasure. I can't think of two hours for relaxation being better spent than by reading As You Like It. If you need a philosophical moment, Measure for Measure will give you plenty to ponder over. Psychoanalysis? Freud read Shakespeare. In Critical Approaches to Literature, I used the psycho-analytic approach for Macbeth.

By the way, the same is true for opera: whatever you think of it on CDs, you need to go see a good production of say (Strauss' Die Fliedermaus or Rossini's Barber of Seville - I saw the latter twice and I wouldn't miss an opportunity to see Die Fliedermaus again...) before you can actually make a sound judgement on it.


I'm curious: of those members who believe Shakespeare is overrated, how many have seen a fine production (by the RSC, for example)?

I recently saw a theatre production of Othello.
The interpretation was...interesting.
Theatre doesn't always do justice to theatre works either, shame that.
I do own many brilliant productions of Shakespeare Writings, such as Henry The Fifth, under the "Cinema Club" lable.

I do agree that Shakespeare plays aren't meant to be read and analyzed, and that can kill someone's potential Love of the Bard's Writings.
...
Wait. This is Poetry.

Sonnet number 18.
'Nuff said.

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

Using some one else's story line was normal then, much as classical composers used each others themes, it was not seen as ripping off but as a homage to the other person, it was what you did with it that counted.

How many books don't mark quotes or references to other writers? Howmany fantasy stories don't contain elements of LOTR? Howmany books aren't based upon Shakespear plays?

Shakespeare is the king of metaphor, his writings betray his secret love of Catholicism in Puritan England. His plays were popular because many closet Catholics understood his clever use of symbolism. The Puritan population however rarely read anything more than the Bible. Even though the Bible is full of metaphor and symbolism, the Protestant church even to this day still read the Bible in a literal sense. Shakespeare made full use of this institutionalised ignorance to spread pro Catholic propaganda. At one point Shakespeare was being spied on by order of Queen Elizabeth !
My favourite piece of Shakespeare verse is the worlds best known love poem, see if you can spot the subversive lines ?

William Shakespeare - Sonnet #18
Shall I compare thee to a Summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And Summer's lease hath all too short a date:
Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,
And oft' is his gold complexion dimm'd;
And every fair from fair sometime declines,
By chance or nature's changing course untrimm'd:
But thy eternal Summer shall not fade
Nor lose possession of that fair thou owest;
Nor shall Death brag thou wanderest in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou growest:

So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.

The above poem is an ode to the holy see of Peter in Rome !

Superlatives defy me, simply beautiful.

Shakespeare's tragedies (excluding R&J) are the only pieces I enjoy. The histories get their acclaim partly because of Bill's reputation, and partly because of his command of language. His comedies, on the other hand, had they been written today, would be on the level of "Not Another Teen Movie" "Meet the Spartans" "Scary Movie 1,2,3, etc" and the like. Thin plots with shallow characters, dick jokes, and some pretty wordplay on the side.

His poetry is really where his command of language really shines though. Don't get me wrong, his sonnets are real pieces of art, but everyone always goes to #18, so I can't share the enthusiasm for that one anymore. Hidden messages or otherwise.

I'm a big Shakespeare fan. Of everyone I've read he's really the best at playing with words. It's amazing how many household sayings we use today came from him. His one line from Taming of the Shrew still cracks me up (paraphrased):

"So why'd you come to Padua, Petruchio?"
"To thrive and wive! Thrive and wive!"

Shakespeare's one of the few guys I think deserve the title genius. Not too many of him come around.

I had a mild panic attack when I reached the end of this thread without mention of sonnet XII, 'When I do count the clock that tells the time'. So panicked was I, I didn't even introduce myself before posting in this thread. This sonnet is what made me study English. There are plays and prose I like better but this remains my favourite poem.


I think the declaration that a modern Shakespeare would be equal to Epic Movie is perhaps a tad overreaching though. But perhaps that is the result of a slight obsession.


And who are we kidding, Shakespeare was really Marlowe.[/conspiracy]

Originally Posted by Just Me

I think that William Shakespeare is one of the most overrated authors in the history or literature.

The fact is, had he lived today, he'd probably be nothing. The reason for his major recognition is that there weren't that many options when he was alive. When you have no market for literature and then out of the blue, you get this prolific playwright pumping out dozens of plays, he's bound to find success.

Maybe I'm just bitter because Shakespeare got away with a lot just because he set the precedent. I once had this argument with an English teacher of mine - I had submitted a paper on Shakespeare but had made up most of the words. When I got it back with a "please see me" and a "what is this?" written in red ink, I tried to use the "well, he made up his own words, why can't I?" argument. It didn't work.

lmao! What nonsense...

What about Christopher Marlowe? I'm not so sure that you are reading literary history properly at all my dear!

Originally Posted by Mr Sci Fi

Considering most of his plays were published post-humorously...

That was only the histories and tragedies

Originally Posted by ODaly

Shakespeare's tragedies (excluding R&J) are the only pieces I enjoy. The histories get their acclaim partly because of Bill's reputation, and partly because of his command of language. His comedies, on the other hand, had they been written today, would be on the level of "Not Another Teen Movie" "Meet the Spartans" "Scary Movie 1,2,3, etc" and the like. Thin plots with shallow characters, dick jokes, and some pretty wordplay on the side.

His poetry is really where his command of language really shines though. Don't get me wrong, his sonnets are real pieces of art, but everyone always goes to #18, so I can't share the enthusiasm for that one anymore. Hidden messages or otherwise.

I rather think Just another teenage movie would be somewhat below the level of a note from Shakespeare to his milkman...