Bika

I've read and written stuff from people who have this enthusiasm, and while it shows, it doesn't make the writing worth the reading. I've read stuff that was written purely for others, and it was worth reading.

This piece says very little to me about spontenaity.

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TsuTseQ

Don't confuse the skill of the writer with the inspiration of the writer -- they're two different things. Also, a good writer always keeps his or her audience in mind while writing, but that doesn't mean the piece was strictly written for other people.

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"I wanted to work in either Miami or L.A. After Canada, I wanted warm weather."
-- Jillian Barbarie

Bika

I'm not mistaking skill for inspiration, but this poem says if you don't have the "inspiration", or if the inspiration is one of x reasons, then don't bother.

You're assuming that I'm assuming what was written was strictly for other people and I wasn't assuming at all. Assuming, of course, your sentence about a good writer was in reference to my comment about stuff written specifically for other people.

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TsuTseQ

Anyone can write well in a formula if they understand how it works -- essays, articles, proposals even generic stories and poetry -- that's why formulas are taught in school, but that's not what this poem is about.

This poem is about being a "Writer" (I'm capitalizing the word for a reason). It's a distinct kind of creature. Do you Write your poetry because you want to impress someone? Because you think it's hip? Because you're emulating someone?

Or do you Write your poetry because you need to? Because it speaks something about the human condition, about your condition? If not, why Write at all? You may as well express yourself in a formula.

Inspiration breathes life into work, hence the term, and inspiration can come in many forms, from being inspired to write something for someone, to writing for the hell of it. The distinction in the quality and passion of that writing comes, when during the writing process, the writer hasn't internalized the idea, made it his/her own, gathered personal energy for its creation, drawn a need for its expression. When you don't do those things, you're not a Writer.

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"I wanted to work in either Miami or L.A. After Canada, I wanted warm weather."
-- Jillian Barbarie

Bika

Why introduce formula now? I'm not talking about writing to a formula. I never was. It's irrelevant.

I have no need to write poetry. It's simply another opportunity that I currently enjoy taking advantage of.

... I'll never be a Writer, thankfully, nor a Poet, or an Artiste.
The distinction comes only when the writer considers themself something more than the average person, or, not "your kind" or "my kind". A writer becomes a Writer when their ego and their belief in their art becomes more important than the act of creation that it entails.

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TsuTseQ

What opportunity are you taking advantage of?

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"I wanted to work in either Miami or L.A. After Canada, I wanted warm weather."
-- Jillian Barbarie

Bika

Edit: will answer later, gotta go get my boys.

Briefly - an exploration of a means of communication and learning that I usually do not use.

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TsuTseQ

I look forward to your answer, but you inspired another question in me -- why do you want to explore a means of communicating?

__________________
"I wanted to work in either Miami or L.A. After Canada, I wanted warm weather."
-- Jillian Barbarie

Bika

Grrr held up at work. Really going, really.
Communication is under-rated

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TsuTseQ

In what way is it under-rated?

EDIT: Also, who has under-rated it?

__________________
"I wanted to work in either Miami or L.A. After Canada, I wanted warm weather."
-- Jillian Barbarie

dannyboy

actually I like how Hemingway put it

write until that moment the flow is gone

stop

go away

come back

edit

until the flow is reignited

write

until the flow is gone

go away

come back

edit

etc etc etc

and do this every day











or was that me?

Bika

Conversations for a different time and place.
Just got home - out to see an uncle with the kids for dinner - and kids have crashed. My turn now.

I am beginning to suspect, howevr, you're trying to take the piss, ttq ... or that just could be my weary mind. *shrugs*

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TsuTseQ

It's your weary mind. Another time then.

__________________
"I wanted to work in either Miami or L.A. After Canada, I wanted warm weather."
-- Jillian Barbarie

J.R. MacLean

danny: I could swear I remember reading that in the daily process of writing- (you may be describing a more over all process) Hemingway would purposely stop when the flow was still going, when things were still juicy. Then picking it up the next morning was that much easier.

How he could drink the way he did, and then pop up in the early morning hours to stand in front of a typewriter, is a marvel. Maybe it bespeaks of Bukowski's inner fire and the need to write.

ms. vodka

laughing. looks like i picked the right poem then.

so, i tend to go with j.r.'s original comment. i absolutely love this poem, as i do so many of bukowski's pieces, but you know- i take it with a grain of salt. i love bukowski's writing for the reasons expressed in this poem- he is full of fire. he is on fire. he sacrificed everything to write. you have to admire that amount of dedication.

alas, i edit. of course i edit. i try not to over-edit, and if i'm getting to that point usually i drop it. i try not to write for others, but sometimes my poetry is blatantly pointed.

and as with anyone, there are poems of his i could eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner for probably the rest of my life, but there are other poems he's written that i'm just like, meh.

the thing about bukowski, is he knew that. he knew some were better than others, and if you're familiar with his work, you would be familiar with the idea that he's sort of like me... a completely self-obsessed arrogant ass one minute and his own worst critic the next.

perhaps i should pick one with a bit more humility for next time.

embrace the contradictions!

vodka