Thread: Works of xlwoo

I have translated almost 200 hundred famous Chinese classical poems into English. I want opinion of American readers to see they are okay or need revisions. Since American readers can't understand the Chinese, I leave the originals out and only post the English versions. I can flatter myself to say that my translations are the closest in meaning to the originals. In some other poetic website, I have posted many of them and the feedback is generally favorable. At the request of some readers I even post some translations of the same poem by different translators, which I will do later. Now here is the first translation:

Up On Stork Tower
by Wang Zhihuan of Tang Dynasty

The setting sun clings to hill's knees,
And Yellow River flows to seas.
If wish for longer view over miles,
Then get on floor above, oh, please!

The poet Wang Zhihuan (688─742 AD) was a famous poet at that time and thereafter. but only six of his poems were handed down to us. The last two lines were often quoted by writers of later dynasties. Or even by modern writers. This poem was translated in 4-foot iambic form with the rhyme pattern AABA.

Now I post the second translation of another poem by the same ancient poet.

Across the Pass
by Wang Zhihuan of Tang Dynasty

The Yellow River far up in white clouds Rises,
The single town lost among hills myriad feet high.
Tartar flute mustn't play plaintive tune of "Willow Snapping"*,
Since the spring wind the Jade Gate Pass** never crosses.

*In the ancient time of china, when a friend went away, the host would snap a twig from the willow tree and give it to his friend, because the Chinese pronunciation of the word willow sounded the same as another word meaning "hope you can stay". So there was a song named "Willow Snapping".
**Jade Gate Pass was a town in the western China. AT that time a traveler, once out of the pass, entered a bleak foreign region.

You may have just offended tens of thousands of bilingual Sino-Americans! And to claim that yours are the definative translations is setting your stall rather high! I think you need to have a look at Cathay by Ezra Pound, copies of which change hands for many $1,000s, though I got mine as an indifferently photocopied manuscript (It is out of copyright). The thing I like about Chinese poetry is its succinctness, but by leaving out a couple of definite articles and pronuons we are lost.

The second problem to catch my eye was a height referenced by myriads in the second translation - A) Poetically it is overused, and B) It is a large indefinite number, or a quantity that is too large to be counted - Well, as all hills have a finite dimension, then it is the wrong word, which makes it look as if you have used it for the sake of poetic effect.

By now you may be wondering what was the first problem, it was the longer view over miles which struck me as odd in the sense that "The longer view" is normally used in the sense of time and distance as in "In regard to this problem we need to take the longer view", I think maybe you need a word akin to further. Surely, the Yellow river only flows into one sea. A bit cheeky of me, but I have rejigged the both translation to read as how I understand them:

The setting sun clings to the knees of the hill,
and the Yellow River flows to the sea.
If you wish to see for miles,
then climb to floor above, oh, please!


The Yellow River rises high up in white clouds,
the single town is lost among hills myriad feet high. ----------------------------- of unknowable height?
The Tartar flute mustn't play the plaintive tune Willow Snapping,
since the spring the wind never crosses Jade Gate Pass.


I hope you don't mind me playing with them - Oh, and I'm English, it is our language after all!

thanks for your commnets. but you may neglect one thing in my translation. The poem are translated in meter and rhyme. when i want to put a line in the right meter like iambus, i must switch word order, which is allowed in English poetry. If you read enough peoms by Shakespeare you can have this conclusion.

The Chinese ancient poets often had vivid imagination. As I said before, my translations are the closest in meaning to the originals. So that was what the poet really said in his Chinese original. I can't change what the poet said in his poem as this is the basic rule of translation. You will see such examples afterwards when I post some of Li Bai's poems. Li Bai was a great poet in the ancient China. His poems were full of vivid imaginations. He described that his hair was as long as ten miles. So I have to translate as it is. If I changed that his hair was only two feet, it might be the truth, but lack poetic imagination.

I met some American people who have learned Chinese, and I have found that their Chinese is better than mine, though I am a Chinese. The native speakers always don't get deeper into their own mother tongue while foreigners do.

Originally Posted by xlwoo

I met some American people who have learned Chinese, and I have found that their Chinese is better than mine, though I am a Chinese. The native speakers always don't get deeper into their own mother tongue while foreigners do.

I understand, but feel that when translating you have to take account of the language into which you are translating, and yours appeared to be missing words, it wasn't just a question of syntax. You can re-order words in English but they still have to form a coherent sentence, but as I can't even negotiate a Chinese menu, I shall leave it to you.

I often feel that here in the UK we would do well to teach our own children English as a foreign language, our teachers seem to have taken the lazy route and stopped teaching the difficult bits!

What you said is correct. If I write a poem in English I will write it in the way you said. But in translation, especially using meter and rhyme, I have to omit some small words like articles to meet the requirements of meter and rhyme. My tutor when I learned how to translate Chinese classical into English told me that it is allowed. He said that as long as readers can understand what the version means some omitting and change of word order are no problem. by the way the tutor was graduated from Cambridge University in England. He learned poetry there.

See Official Du off to Shuzhou*
by Wang Bo of Tang Dynasty

The town you go to guards the region of Sanqin*,
Far through the wind and smoke I try to see Wujin*.
How bad I am really feeling when you do part,
For we are both the officials away from home.
If close friends within bounds of four seas existing,
Though at edge of the world it seems under next door dome.
Don't at the crossroad where with each other we part
Cry like children with tears our handkerchiefs wetting!

*All were names of places.
Wang Bo (649--676 AD) was deemed a genius. Only he died young, drowned in the water when he took a ship to see his father in the south of China and the ship turned over in a storm. This is a famus poem of his. The fifth and sixth lines are always quoted to express a feeling about true friendship.

Sorrow of a Wife
by Wang Changling of Tang Dynasty

The young wife in her chamber who knows no sorrow,
Mounts emerald tower, dressed fully on a spring day.
All at once she sees the green of roadside willow,
Regrets letting her man seek marquisate far away.

[Wang (698--756) was also a famous poet at that time. When a rebellion arose, he returned to his homeland, quitting the office, but he was killed in the chaos. Thia is also a famous poem, especially the last line.]

See YuanEr* Off To Be Prefect in Anxi**
by Wang Wei of Tang Dynasty
The morn rain o' Wei Town has laid the light dust clean;
And willow trees around the inn look fresh and green.
A cup of farewell yet***, oh you, I do entreat,
For west across Yang Pass, and friends but seldom meet.

*YuanEr was a friend of the poet's.
**Anxi was the name of a place.
***This is the imitation of "a cup of kindness yet" from a Scots poem Auld
Lang Syne by Robert Burns.
[Wang Wei (701--761) was a famous poet as well as a painter. It was said that there were pictures in his poems and there were poems in his paintings. He was nicknamed Buddha of Poetry.]

A question xlwoo - Is your English tutor actually English or British?

Oh, and while you're at it, can you translate this into English please: 她走在美的夜晚

my English tutor was a Chinese who went to Cambridge, England.

here is the translation: 她走在美的夜晚
she's walking in the beautiful night.

Originally Posted by xlwoo

my English tutor was a Chinese who went to Cambridge, England.

here is the translation: 她走在美的夜晚
she's walking in the beautiful night.

xlwoo - therin lies a pitfall of translation. I read your translation which is a literal translation of what I posted, whether what I posted was a literal translation into Chinese from English, I don't know, as I neither speak nor read your language, but the original line was poetic and translating it into any language was always going to be difficult as, while it may be "literary" in English, its syntax owes more to metaphor than "correct" English. The original line is Byron's:

She walks in beauty, like the night

I think you might do well not to take your English tutor too literally when he/she says it's all right to leave things out, as leaving out either an indefinite or definite article can cripple a line. I know you want to keep to the Chinese equivalent of a syllable count, but as far as I understand, Chinese like Japanese, doesn't have syllables in the way English does, it's more about inflection, so perhaps you might try giving your translations over to English completely - After all, I assume that you are translating them into our language so thet we too may feel their beauty, without it being spoiled by disjunctions where we seek to parse the sentence rather than enjoy the poem.


The morning rain over Wei Town has laid the light dust clean;
And willow trees around the inn look fresh and green.
A cup of farewell yet, oh you, I do entreat,
For west across Yang Pass, and friends but seldom meet.

Writing it like this gives you an iambic metre which is the natural rhythm of the English language, and you are, after all, translating these for us to enjoy.

IF She walks in beauty, like the night is a line from Byron, then the Chinese translation is wrong. I just translated it from the Chinese sentence.

In my translation of Chinese classical poems, I want to let foreign readers know how a line is said in Chinese while this line is basically understood in meaning. When we translate an English idiom like "Kill two birds with one stone" into Chinese, we do it also literally, though we have an idiom of our own with the same meaning: Kill two vultures with one arrow. Different translators do a translation in different styles. Thanks for your opinion.

Lovesick
by Wang Wei of TAng Dynasty

The red peas* grow in southern land.
How many, when spring comes, will sprout?
Wish you can pick them as many,
As this thing the love will denote.

*The red pea was just a small round thing like pea, but a little hard. The ancient Chinese people took it as the emblem of lovesickness. It was often gathered and given to lovers.

A Fine Day In Spring
by Wang Jia of Tang Dynasty

The buds seen among blossoms before rain;
But no blossoms under leaves after rain!
When butterflies and bees fly o'er the wall,
I doubt that spring's settl'd in neighbor's hall*.

*The last line shows the imagination of the poet. Why do the butterflies and bees fly over the wall to next door is bacause spring is there. The last two lines are famous.
[Wang Jia (851 -- ? ) was a poet of imagination. He had been a government official since 890, but later retired to his homeland for a life of hermit.]