Craft and Purpose. - Page 2 - Writers Forum

gingaTao! · 11-30-2007, 11:30 PM

Yes I can only apologise for my tone so many times. And my tendancy to circle the point. You have a love of structure you say. In your poetry do you fill a predetermined empty structure with words or does the content create its own structure?

Baron · 11-30-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by witioni

You waste too much energy trying to tell me 1 + 1 = 2. But sure, lets discuss poetry... what is on your mind?

The best way to discuss poetry on this forum is through reviews and critiques of poetry posted here for that purpose.

witioni · 11-30-2007, 11:38 PM

I'm not sure what I'm being reprimanded for... my 1 + 1 = 2 joke or the part where I ask what is on his mind?

Wallmaker · 11-30-2007, 11:56 PM

Alright, maintaining focus on a poem, I believe like in most story writing is creating tension, and like music, a sense of progression and development. Take an ode for example. Odes are generally focused on 1 person, place, thing, or idea and each strophe is centered around a redefying or description of the focal point. In the end, the object or result is announced. Here the tension is a guessing game, using the unusual perspective and perhaps and underlying metaphor that the ode object stands for.

While I think we can agree on the general concepts, I think how to construct is much more difficult. Of that, I can be no help, only hopefull that theses elements come to me easily peice after piece. And when they don't, maybe I'll just scrunch my foreheads to I bleed out my eyes until it does happen.

-Kay

gingaTao! · 12-01-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallmaker

Alright, maintaining focus on a poem, I believe like in most story writing is creating tension, and like music, a sense of progression and development. Take an ode for example. Odes are generally focused on 1 person, place, thing, or idea and each strophe is centered around a redefying or description of the focal point. In the end, the object or result is announced. Here the tension is a guessing game, using the unusual perspective and perhaps and underlying metaphor that the ode object stands for.

While I think we can agree on the general concepts, I think how to construct is much more difficult. Of that, I can be no help, only hopefull that theses elements come to me easily peice after piece. And when they don't, maybe I'll just scrunch my foreheads to I bleed out my eyes until it does happen.

-Kay

Brilliant! I have learnt many things. About odes, indeed, but also that you very very smart and cool and funny, and I will look out for your work. If you at any time have anything that cool and smart and funny for me to read, yell at me loudly, because i am old and slow and tired and off with the Marleys, but you have placed your work in a context, and everyone's a winner, have a day full of tiny tiny miracles of beauty amongst acres and acres of.......

Ilasir Maroa · 12-01-2007, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_C

Actually, I was hoping that for once someone would tell the pretentious cunt to fuck off, and it wouldn't have to be me that said it!

Oh, I'm sorry.

But my opinion still remains valid, in response to Baron's post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

The best way to discuss poetry on this forum is through reviews and critiques of poetry posted here for that purpose.

Critique is a very useful tool for learning, but a grounding in the general principles is also immensely helpful. Since there is no seperate forum for discussions of poetry in general, I don't see why this place cannot be used for the purpose. If people feel so strongly that this is not the place for such discussions, I encourage them to present an alternative.

Baron · 12-01-2007, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilasir Maroa

Oh, I'm sorry.

But my opinion still remains valid, in response to Baron's post.

I'm jet-lagged, cheesed off that the promise of California sunshine became the reality of California rain, and generally not of the best disposition to get involved with debate.

Although I would have worded it differently I'm in agreement with Pete. I don't have a problem with someone who posts regularly on the forum starting a discussion, although I think that the lounge or debate forum is a better place for it. I'm not impressed with the pretentious ramblings that I see in this thread by someone who has not yet established himself either through critiques or posted work.

I would say that if his work is as overworked as the entries in this thread then I can at least be thankful that he's spared us that.

Wallmaker · 12-01-2007, 12:40 AM

Oh noes Baron! Same here! I was on the I-5 today and got in a fender bender on the rain slicked road.

Now I realize you came here and took my sunshine. No fair!

But really, rain soaked Cali still has some nice features and the rainy weather never lasts more than a day or so. I hope you get sunny skies tomorrow!

Wallmaker · 12-01-2007, 12:40 AM

GingaTao,

You are really interested on these discussions and you are welcome to chat away anytime or PM me, but I do warn you that it's easy to get off on the wrong foot in the forums. At the same time, my first time here I didn't make friends right away either. But then, much like Sears, many members saw the softer side of me and things are starting to go well.

So, go forth and explore the forum!

Cheers,

Kay

Ilasir Maroa · 12-01-2007, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

I'm jet-lagged, cheesed off that the promise of California sunshine became the reality of California rain, and generally not of the best disposition to get involved with debate.

Although I would have worded it differently I'm in agreement with Pete. I don't have a problem with someone who posts regularly on the forum starting a discussion, although I think that the lounge or debate forum is a better place for it. I'm not impressed with the pretentious ramblings that I see in this thread by someone who has not yet established himself either through critiques or posted work.

I would say that if his work is as overworked as the entries in this thread then I can at least be thankful that he's spared us that.

Yes... well, I understand where you are coming from. Though I think putting it in lounge or debate would really cut down on the responses (and wish all those suggestions that the staff make a poetry discussion section weren't such dismal failures). I don't think this person's trying to be pretentious, though, just overly enthusiastic.

Baron · 12-01-2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallmaker

Oh noes Baron! Same here! I was on the I-5 today and got in a fender bender on the rain slicked road.

Now I realize you came here and took my sunshine. No fair!

But really, rain soaked Cali still has some nice features and the rainy weather never lasts more than a day or so. I hope you get sunny skies tomorrow!

I didn't bring it, it stalked me.

Pete_C · 12-01-2007, 04:44 AM

OKay, let's be helpful now.

First thing Ginger, I believe that this is certainly the place to have a debate. However, if I was to walk into a pub tomorrow and announce to all and sundry that I had a theory to prove space travel of any kind was impossible without my vital input, I'd expect to be told to piss off, especially if that pub was the Astronaut's Arms.

Your first post in thisthread; what was that? Either you had a point to make which you decided to illustrate with your own work - a major egofuck in anyone's book - or your poem needed a long and dull intro. A reader won't want a fucking essay to get to the point of your work; it has to satnd alone and do it's job. The fact that you needed to write a dull intro proves one thing; your poem was bad. Instead of boring us with intros, write something that does the trick. No reader wants to be told how a poem works and why it works; they just want it to work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingaTao!

I fear that instead of finding a forum for articulate and passionate discussion about the craft and purpose of writing I have stumbled upon something quite different, an egocircus perhaps.

It follows you around. By the way, there should be a question mark at the end of the sentence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingaTao!

Firstly, this is an antihaiku rather than a haiku in that the silence it creates at the end of the poem is not an empty silence.

So, your USP is in fact not original; it's merely taking someone else's USP and turning the definition around, eh? Well, there are a few folks in here (me included) that have invented the anti-poem. We beat you to it. Not an empty silence? Grow up and be judged by your output, not your waffling, young man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingaTao!

These are absolutely free lessons in becoming a better writer.

Gee, thanks Mister. But can I ask, did you skip the free lessons yourself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingaTao!

If you have some ridiculous notion of becoming a professional writer, here is a free tip. Noone will hire you if you cannot speak like a professional in every public forum.

Okay, some people in here write for fun, some write because they're mad, some because they find it cathartic, some becuse the muse grips them by balls, and some because they can. I don't know which group you fall into.The one you certainly don't fall into is the professional writer. It might be a badge you wear, but it ain't so.

I'll tell you howw I know this. I've had many jobs in the last 30 odd years. I've humped carcasses in an abatoir, I've driven a bus, I've shovelled rhino shit and I've been a disinfecter at a morgue. However, these were temporary jobs between spells of writing. I've earned my crust over the last 30 odd years writing. It's bought me a house, numerous cars, motorcycles, holidays ... it still supports me and my other half. Now, about two years into my writing career I had a moment. I was sitting on a plane, flying from Paris to Italy, and it dawned on me how silly it was. I was paid money to write words. Other writers I know have all had that moment. From there on in, the ego is dead. You realise you are lucky, and just hope your luck rides out.

The only people I meet that spout shit about writing are either failed writers or those that self publish with few sales, or those that just have big heads and fuck all published.

Now, I'm not alone on here in my circumstances. However, I don't presume to tell people how to be a writer or how not to be a writer. I also don't presume to suggest that becoming a professional writer is some "ridiculous notion".

Now, you've marched in here all filled with piss and vinegar, and you've broken the Golden Rule. Don't EVER piss off your readers.

Here's a suggestion; calm down, vindicate yourself with your writing, and learn a little humility. You can also debate the living shit out of what I've said, but I shan't be bothering to interject, so you're on your ownsome.

gingaTao! · 12-01-2007, 04:51 AM

Excellent. That all makes perfect calm sense to me. I'm off to the bar.

gingaTao! · 09-11-2008, 05:25 PM

I see this place hasn't improved any. What a laugh riot it was. I've never met so many 'writers' with so little understanding of irony or control of various voices in one place before. Read any decent poetry lately? No, you're probably all still too busy arguing about linebreaks and punctuation marks. Have a fabulous day. Paul.

thevortex · 09-12-2008, 01:15 AM

Its been a long time since I visited this forum. Well, its been a long time since I made time to write as well.

This thread kind of caught my eye

gingaTao - I am no expert nor do I claim to be a senior member here. But there are better ways to establish yourself in a community than trying to belittle people here - especially people that you dont know much about.

Believe me, when I submitted my first poem, I did think that a lot of attention was being paid to miniscule items such as linebreaks or punctuation marks. But see, I learnt. The linebreaks, the structure, form and punctuation - those are what finish out your work. The presence of absence of these is what marks out the work as either being professional or otherwise.

One thing I can vouch for is that this community is warm and responsive once you take the effort to get to know it and also when you open yourself up a teeny bit.

I still think the situation can be remedied if this thread is closed and if you can submit one of your poems in another thread. I think that would be a new and better beginning. Another beginning.

Vortex