Thread: Society's Dimensions

Again, a working title. This is just a very rough little piece that needs a lot of work. Extensive critiques are appreciated. If you have an idea for a better title, I'm all ears.

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In the far-off seas
that stain the shores with
diamonds floating in men’s blood
or the luring shine of a dagger’s whore;

Where the mountains scream
for the tug of the night-time sun
that drags flames from west to east
and makes the wind screech her name
against evening’s turned back;

Where lightning bolts lick the earth;
the snakes that twist ‘round apple’s core
and taint the poison of desire
or birth water from the empty wells
to spill on ground that tugs its final breath

You’ll find a man whose
toothless grin you know, but for
the blue of his swollen cheeks,
rounded gut and searching, hungry eye.

He’ll point to the heavens – a shine
that faintly brushes this world –
and immediately you will know:
It is Eve who screams on the mountains
that threaten to crumble beneath the weight
of the citadel that digs into its core.

Okay, Nick. I'm going to give this a shot...

In the far-off seas
that stain the shores with
diamonds floating in men’s blood
or the luring shine of a dagger’s whore;

Where the mountains scream
for the tug of the night-time sun
that drags flames from west to east
and makes the wind screech her name
against evening’s turned back;

The second stanza is much, much better than the first. It's not that you don't have some interesting imagery in the first stanza, I'm just having a hard time making a strong connection between the first stanza and the rest of the poem.

Also, a disclaimer: like I told ChestersDaughter in another thread, I am TERRIBLE at deciphering metaphor, having had no formal training in writing technique. So, you might have to just come right out and tell me what your intention was for the first stanza meaning-wise before I'll be able to tell you if I think it's successful or not.

That said, I also tend to subscribe to the Billy Collins School of Poetic Interpretation (link: Introduction to Poetry by Billy Collins : The Poetry Foundation). I don't want to "torture a confession" out of your poem!

Where lightning bolts lick the earth;
the snakes that twist ‘round apple’s core
and taints the poison of desire
or births water from the empty wells
to spill on ground that tugs its final breath

The second line is very awkwardly phrased. Any particular reason you write it like that? If it were me, I would take out "that" and add a "the" or an "an" before "apple's" to make it run smoother.

Also, in the third line, it should be "taint" not "taints."

First line, BTW, is awesome. "Lightning bolts lick the earth." Love it.

You’ll find a man who’s
toothless grin you know, but for
the blue of his swollen cheeks,
rounded gut and searching, hungry eye.

He’ll point to the heavens – a shine
that faintly brushes this world –
and immediately you will know:
It is Eve who screams on the mountains
that threaten to crumble beneath the weight
of the citadel that digs into it's core.

First line, 4th stanza: should be "whose," not "who's." Last line, 5th stanza: should be "its" not "it's."

I think these two stanzas are your strongest.

All in all, I am vaguely reminded of Dylan Thomas. My guess is that it's about the Biblical "fall of man"? The toothless guy, that's Satan? That's what I got out of it, anyway.

Wish I could have been more helpful, but maybe this post'll help spur some better comments from other people.

Hey Bachelorette. First of all, thank you for the extensive analysis. I'll dive right in.

The first stanza is just a further description of the place, but represents also the darkness of man - greed at any cost being the focus(diamonds in men's blood, and the whore with a dagger). It isn't entirely necessary, and I'm sure I could fit one of the descriptions in elsewhere to represent greed, but I liked the beginning of "In the far-off seas" rather than plunging straight it with "Where".

"The snakes that twist 'round apple's core" - I wrote this line in the strange way for rhythm (iambic pentameter). I figured the whole poem was too disjointed (I wanted it quite 'broken', but I felt I overdid it), so I thought even just a small break of rhythm would be like the reader coming up for air. I'll see if I can keep the iambic pentameter without making it seem too awkward.

Thanks for pointing out 'taints', and the other grammatical errors.

The toothless guy is up for interpretation. In my mind I imagined Adam when I read it, to go with Eve, but Satan works just as well.

You've been very helpful, Bachelorette, and I thank you for taking time to go through it. I'll see what I can do with your suggestions.

Originally Posted by Nick

The first stanza is just a further description of the place, but represents also the darkness of man - greed at any cost being the focus(diamonds in men's blood, and the whore with a dagger). It isn't entirely necessary, and I'm sure I could fit one of the descriptions in elsewhere to represent greed, but I liked the beginning of "In the far-off seas" rather than plunging straight it with "Where".

Ah, I see now. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about - I did not make the connection between the blood diamonds and greed, even though I KNEW you were talking about blood diamonds. But like I said, it's not that the first stanza is BAD, and I understand why you wouldn't want to just start with "Where." So, it's probably fine; who knows if the problem was with what you wrote or me just being dense, haha. Probably the latter.

"The snakes that twist 'round apple's core" - I wrote this line in the strange way for rhythm (iambic pentameter). I figured the whole poem was too disjointed (I wanted it quite 'broken', but I felt I overdid it), so I thought even just a small break of rhythm would be like the reader coming up for air.

Hm, that's interesting. I guess I didn't get a "disjointed" feel from the rhythm of the poem. The choice of words, yes, but I guess I don't think you overdid it too much. Maybe you could put the iambic pentameter elsewhere? Or, if that's the only place you put it, maybe you don't really need it at all? Just a thought.

Anyway, I'm glad you found my comments helpful, sparse though they were. I'd be interested to see your next draft, if you feel inclined to post it.

I love this piece Nick, I don't have any criticism for it, like Bachelorette, I suck with metaphor. However I disagree with her/him about the first stanza - I think it sets the mood for this piece. keep up the good work!

Hey Chiefspider,

I'm glad you enjoyed the poem. It seems I have mixed opinions about the first stanza, so I'll see if there's a way I can meet in the middle - maybe merge the first and second? Thanks for the feedback!


On future note: The title should be 'Society's Dimensions'. I still don't like it, so if anyone has an alternative I'd appreciate it.

A very great picture painted here indeed. My thoughts:

Originally Posted by Nick

In the far-off seas
that stain the shores with Oh, this a WONDERFUL opening. Nice alliteration, good enjambment, and words painted.
diamonds floating in men’s blood
or the luring shine of a dagger’s whore; A strong, opening rhyme. I like the reversal here.

Where the mountains scream
for the tug of the night-time sun
that drags flames from west to east
and makes the wind screech her name "Tug", "drag", "screech"... great words, but "makes"? You can do better than that!
against evening’s turned back; I love the personification.

Where lightning bolts lick the earth; Wow. My favorite line. Very strong. Semi colon and transition to next line is confusing though.
the snakes that twist ‘round apple’s core
and taint the poison of desire
or birth water from the empty wells The transition in this stanza is confusing. I would suggest either small rewording or some added punctuation.
to spill on ground that tugs its final breath Hmm, maybe find another word for tug. You used it earlier.

You’ll find a man whose Y shouldn't be capitalized. It through me off for a second when I saw that.
toothless grin you know, but for I would consider bring "whose" down to this line. "You'll find a man" is a very nice line. "But for"? Does that actually make sense as the lead in to the description?
the blue of his swollen cheeks,
rounded gut and searching, hungry eye. A very nice description.

He’ll point to the heavens – a shine
that faintly brushes this world – Oh that's POETRY! Nice.
and immediately you will know:
It is Eve who screams on the mountains
that threaten to crumble beneath the weight
of the citadel that digs into its core. Hmm. I love the imagery here and the sentiment, but this sentence is very complex. Maybe break it up or less wordy?

well i have no idea what it means, and i don't want to know... i like it. to me, every stanza felt like a puzzle, a little toy for my mind to play with, and still i felt it all connected. a blend of old and new, a rapid cycle, and the burdon of divine awareness colliding with human nature. thats what i saw anyway.

the snakes that twist ‘round apple’s core

twist 'round sounds really awkward to me. i'm the wrong person to analyze metter, this has a kind of double spundee effect, which i like, like the pounding of a gavel. i think if you were to just say "around", you wouldn't lose that effect, and the diction stays consistant with the rest of the poem.

the last line feels kind of weak to me, and maybe i'm getting some pronoun confusion (?) on first read i thought the citidel was digging into eve's core, but i wasn't reading carefully. perhaps the last two lines are trying to wrap too much up in one statement. just something to think about.

anyway, really enjoyed reading this.

wood