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Thread: Invitation

  1. #16
    Captain Baron is on a distinguished road Baron's Avatar
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    I disagree with Mermaid on this one. I think that the universal appeal is there and you're right not to make the image too strong.


    "all lies and jest, 'til the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - Paul Simon

  2. #17
    Wordsmith JosephB will become famous soon enough JosephB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater View Post
    You're misunderstanding. If you want readers to get it, you have to give them a central image to really suggest it. I've already said I didn't pick that up in the poem until you explained it to me. At the moment, it's ambiguous at any rate.

    The literal interpretation is of a troubled relationship and purely that. I think you could concentrate a little bit more on the fact the child has just passed away. Something a reader will be struck by.
    I'm not misunderstanding at all. It may be that it's just ambiguous to you.

    But it’s all good. The chicks dig it. I thought that was the whole point of this poetry thing.

    Anyway, it’s a holiday here – Independence Day. When we decided to kick your asses. I’m going to the pool and have a couple of cold ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron View Post
    I disagree with Mermaid on this one. I think that the universal appeal is there and you're right not to make the image too strong.
    What he said.
    Last edited by JosephB; 07-04-2009 at 10:12 AM.
    "Some people call me the space cowboy, some call me the gangster of love."
    -- Albert Einstein

    "I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."

    --
    Flannery O'Connor


  3. #18
    Profound Writer lilacstarflower is on a distinguished road lilacstarflower's Avatar
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    Hey Joseph, I usually don't crit your work because in my opinion you don't need a crit from me. You clearly have a talent for writing poetry. This is the second one of yours that I have read and thought it was so beautiful that I read it over in awe.

    Go you!!

    Edit: personally I don't think you need to point out that the poem is about a child that passed. I got that vibe throughout. There was definately a sense of loss in the words that suggested a bereavement of some kind had happened
    ~ In order to obtain a RAINBOW, we have to endure a little RAIN ~

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  4. #19
    Ink Slinger Mermaid on the breakwater will become famous soon enough Mermaid on the breakwater's Avatar
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    Why would you not utilise the potential in the piece? At the moment, it's like a lucid dream and doesn't really say anything about the death of a child. It speaks of the death of love and two people trying to get it back. Just not the same or as powerful by implication.

    I think what I've suggested - a central image implying the death of a newborn which doesn't have to be abrasive or graphic - is more beneficial to the piece because it connects the different strands of the poem.

    Saying you don't think the image should be too strong is not a good argument, Rob.

    Lilacstarflower's post proves my point. I needn't say more.
    Steaming Brew
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  5. #20
    Profound Writer lilacstarflower is on a distinguished road lilacstarflower's Avatar
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    sometimes the power of suggestion alone is enough, Mermaid
    ~ In order to obtain a RAINBOW, we have to endure a little RAIN ~

    ~ You have to believe to achieve ~

  6. #21
    Captain Baron is on a distinguished road Baron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater View Post

    Saying you don't think the image should be too strong is not a good argument, Rob.

    Lilacstarflower's post proves my point. I needn't say more.
    If Joe was writing an essay rather than a poem I might agree with you. Lilacstarflower's post does quite the opposite.



    "all lies and jest, 'til the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - Paul Simon

  7. #22
    Wordsmith JosephB will become famous soon enough JosephB's Avatar
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    I see what you are saying Mermaid. And it could be that because this is from my experience, I'm too close to it to be objective.

    But there is a line you cross when you make such a blatant tug at the heart strings. I purposely left out the dead baby reference because I didn't want to bludgeon the reader with it. There is something gratuitous about it.

    Anyway -- if you leave it a little gray, then people can take what they want from it.

    EDIT: Please don't think I don't appreciate your input. I just disagree this time.
    "Some people call me the space cowboy, some call me the gangster of love."
    -- Albert Einstein

    "I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."

    --
    Flannery O'Connor


  8. #23
    Wordsmith JosephB will become famous soon enough JosephB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilacstarflower View Post
    Hey Joseph, I usually don't crit your work because in my opinion you don't need a crit from me. You clearly have a talent for writing poetry. This is the second one of yours that I have read and thought it was so beautiful that I read it over in awe.

    Go you!!

    Edit: personally I don't think you need to point out that the poem is about a child that passed. I got that vibe throughout. There was definately a sense of loss in the words that suggested a bereavement of some kind had happened
    Oh, and thanks lilac.
    "Some people call me the space cowboy, some call me the gangster of love."
    -- Albert Einstein

    "I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."

    --
    Flannery O'Connor


  9. #24
    Ink Slinger Mermaid on the breakwater will become famous soon enough Mermaid on the breakwater's Avatar
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    No. Sorry, lol. People can talk about suggestion all they like, the simple fact is it doesn't speak of a dead child anywhere. The fact nobody mentioned it until after Joe mentioned it says it all.

    If you like, visualise having none of the authors' comments attributed to the poem, you'd be clutching at straws to state that a dead child is involved. And that's my fundamental disagreement with everybody else, to this point; one cannot expect an ambiguous message to be interpreted as the vision the author initially had in mind.

    If I write about the leaves falling off the trees in autumn and coming back in the spring, I can say it's about the circle of life and the death of a head of my family. What I mean is that a general indicator of loss is just not enough to pull it off. I think if people were serious about improving the poem, they'd realise that too. It's just an objective position that I hold.

    Edit: Joseph, if you want to keep it as is, do so. At least I've offered you something to think about and debate.
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  10. #25
    Profound Writer ChestersDaughter is on a distinguished road ChestersDaughter's Avatar
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    Dear Joseph, I am so very sorry to hear of your tragic loss. The piece clearly indicates loss immediately. God bless both you and your wife, you kept it together, which was no easy feat. My prayers are with you.

    On a much lighter note, if "chicks dig it", where do I fit in?

    Best,
    Lisa

  11. #26
    Wordsmith JosephB will become famous soon enough JosephB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChestersDaughter View Post
    Dear Joseph, I am so very sorry to hear of your tragic loss. The piece clearly indicates loss immediately. God bless both you and your wife, you kept it together, which was no easy feat. My prayers are with you.

    On a much lighter note, if "chicks dig it", where do I fit in?

    Best,
    Lisa

    Thanks.

    Uum, You are a chick, right?
    "Some people call me the space cowboy, some call me the gangster of love."
    -- Albert Einstein

    "I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."

    --
    Flannery O'Connor


  12. #27
    Captain Baron is on a distinguished road Baron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater View Post
    No. Sorry, lol. People can talk about suggestion all they like, the simple fact is it doesn't speak of a dead child anywhere. The fact nobody mentioned it until after Joe mentioned it says it all.

    If you like, visualise having none of the authors' comments attributed to the poem, you'd be clutching at straws to state that a dead child is involved. And that's my fundamental disagreement with everybody else, to this point; one cannot expect an ambiguous message to be interpreted as the vision the author initially had in mind.

    If I write about the leaves falling off the trees in autumn and coming back in the spring, I can say it's about the circle of life and the death of a head of my family. What I mean is that a general indicator of loss is just not enough to pull it off. I think if people were serious about improving the poem, they'd realise that too. It's just an objective position that I hold.

    Edit: Joseph, if you want to keep it as is, do so. At least I've offered you something to think about and debate.
    Do you suggest that I don't take it seriously?


    "all lies and jest, 'til the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - Paul Simon

  13. #28
    Profound Writer ChestersDaughter is on a distinguished road ChestersDaughter's Avatar
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    Yes, dear, female for sure, but not a chick. More like a steamroller with a uterus.

  14. #29
    Ink Slinger Mermaid on the breakwater will become famous soon enough Mermaid on the breakwater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron View Post
    Do you suggest that I don't take it seriously?
    If you read what I've said, there's nothing personal about it. You're seeing things that aren't there.
    Steaming Brew
    "Information is information, neither matter nor energy." Nobert Weiner.

  15. #30
    Captain Baron is on a distinguished road Baron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater View Post
    If you read what I've said, there's nothing personal about it. You're seeing things that aren't there.
    You should read what you've written. In Proverbs it says that you should never trust someone who winks at you.



    "all lies and jest, 'til the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - Paul Simon

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