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Baron · 07-04-2009, 10:07 AM

I disagree with Mermaid on this one. I think that the universal appeal is there and you're right not to make the image too strong.

JosephB · 07-04-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

You're misunderstanding. If you want readers to get it, you have to give them a central image to really suggest it. I've already said I didn't pick that up in the poem until you explained it to me. At the moment, it's ambiguous at any rate.

The literal interpretation is of a troubled relationship and purely that. I think you could concentrate a little bit more on the fact the child has just passed away. Something a reader will be struck by.

I'm not misunderstanding at all. It may be that it's just ambiguous to you.

But it’s all good. The chicks dig it. I thought that was the whole point of this poetry thing.

Anyway, it’s a holiday here – Independence Day. When we decided to kick your asses. I’m going to the pool and have a couple of cold ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

I disagree with Mermaid on this one. I think that the universal appeal is there and you're right not to make the image too strong.

What he said.

lilacstarflower · 07-04-2009, 10:15 AM

Hey Joseph, I usually don't crit your work because in my opinion you don't need a crit from me. You clearly have a talent for writing poetry. This is the second one of yours that I have read and thought it was so beautiful that I read it over in awe.

Go you!!

Edit: personally I don't think you need to point out that the poem is about a child that passed. I got that vibe throughout. There was definately a sense of loss in the words that suggested a bereavement of some kind had happened

Mermaid on the breakwater · 07-04-2009, 10:17 AM

Why would you not utilise the potential in the piece? At the moment, it's like a lucid dream and doesn't really say anything about the death of a child. It speaks of the death of love and two people trying to get it back. Just not the same or as powerful by implication.

I think what I've suggested - a central image implying the death of a newborn which doesn't have to be abrasive or graphic - is more beneficial to the piece because it connects the different strands of the poem.

Saying you don't think the image should be too strong is not a good argument, Rob.

Lilacstarflower's post proves my point. I needn't say more.

lilacstarflower · 07-04-2009, 10:19 AM

sometimes the power of suggestion alone is enough, Mermaid

Baron · 07-04-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

Saying you don't think the image should be too strong is not a good argument, Rob.

Lilacstarflower's post proves my point. I needn't say more.

If Joe was writing an essay rather than a poem I might agree with you. Lilacstarflower's post does quite the opposite.

JosephB · 07-04-2009, 10:32 AM

I see what you are saying Mermaid. And it could be that because this is from my experience, I'm too close to it to be objective.

But there is a line you cross when you make such a blatant tug at the heart strings. I purposely left out the dead baby reference because I didn't want to bludgeon the reader with it. There is something gratuitous about it.

Anyway -- if you leave it a little gray, then people can take what they want from it.

EDIT: Please don't think I don't appreciate your input. I just disagree this time.

JosephB · 07-04-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilacstarflower

Hey Joseph, I usually don't crit your work because in my opinion you don't need a crit from me. You clearly have a talent for writing poetry. This is the second one of yours that I have read and thought it was so beautiful that I read it over in awe.

Go you!!

Edit: personally I don't think you need to point out that the poem is about a child that passed. I got that vibe throughout. There was definately a sense of loss in the words that suggested a bereavement of some kind had happened

Oh, and thanks lilac.

Mermaid on the breakwater · 07-04-2009, 10:41 AM

No. Sorry, lol. People can talk about suggestion all they like, the simple fact is it doesn't speak of a dead child anywhere. The fact nobody mentioned it until after Joe mentioned it says it all.

If you like, visualise having none of the authors' comments attributed to the poem, you'd be clutching at straws to state that a dead child is involved. And that's my fundamental disagreement with everybody else, to this point; one cannot expect an ambiguous message to be interpreted as the vision the author initially had in mind.

If I write about the leaves falling off the trees in autumn and coming back in the spring, I can say it's about the circle of life and the death of a head of my family. What I mean is that a general indicator of loss is just not enough to pull it off. I think if people were serious about improving the poem, they'd realise that too. It's just an objective position that I hold.

Edit: Joseph, if you want to keep it as is, do so. At least I've offered you something to think about and debate.

ChestersDaughter · 07-04-2009, 10:41 AM

Dear Joseph, I am so very sorry to hear of your tragic loss. The piece clearly indicates loss immediately. God bless both you and your wife, you kept it together, which was no easy feat. My prayers are with you.

On a much lighter note, if "chicks dig it", where do I fit in?

Best,
Lisa

JosephB · 07-04-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChestersDaughter

Dear Joseph, I am so very sorry to hear of your tragic loss. The piece clearly indicates loss immediately. God bless both you and your wife, you kept it together, which was no easy feat. My prayers are with you.

On a much lighter note, if "chicks dig it", where do I fit in?

Best,
Lisa

Thanks.

Uum, You are a chick, right?

Baron · 07-04-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

No. Sorry, lol. People can talk about suggestion all they like, the simple fact is it doesn't speak of a dead child anywhere. The fact nobody mentioned it until after Joe mentioned it says it all.

If you like, visualise having none of the authors' comments attributed to the poem, you'd be clutching at straws to state that a dead child is involved. And that's my fundamental disagreement with everybody else, to this point; one cannot expect an ambiguous message to be interpreted as the vision the author initially had in mind.

If I write about the leaves falling off the trees in autumn and coming back in the spring, I can say it's about the circle of life and the death of a head of my family. What I mean is that a general indicator of loss is just not enough to pull it off. I think if people were serious about improving the poem, they'd realise that too. It's just an objective position that I hold.

Edit: Joseph, if you want to keep it as is, do so. At least I've offered you something to think about and debate.

Do you suggest that I don't take it seriously?

ChestersDaughter · 07-04-2009, 10:57 AM

Yes, dear, female for sure, but not a chick. More like a steamroller with a uterus.

Mermaid on the breakwater · 07-04-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

Do you suggest that I don't take it seriously?

If you read what I've said, there's nothing personal about it. You're seeing things that aren't there.

Baron · 07-04-2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

If you read what I've said, there's nothing personal about it. You're seeing things that aren't there.

You should read what you've written. In Proverbs it says that you should never trust someone who winks at you.