Thread: Judging System Voting

Okay, Ladies and Gentlemen, the day has arrived where we can finally put this fruitless discussion behind us!

You can cheer now.

Anyway, there are four choices for our new Judging system. They are listed below... read them and digest them, don't just tick off something.

Choice number one is the original system, of course.

Choice number two is Cran's system.

Originally Posted by Cran's Judging System

A proposed guideline for panel reviews is included below. Scoring is out of twenty.
The guideline includes components for objective and subjective assessment.
As artistic judgements are considered paramount, the scoring components are therefore weighted towards the subjective assessment (12/20). The highest cumulative score in the final tally shall be considered the winner(s) of the panel of review.

Elements of English expression:
Spelling and appropriate word use/vocabulary;
Self consistent and appropriate punctuation (if any);
Apt title;
phrase/clause comprehension -
/4 points.

0/4 – Illegible or unreadable .
1/4 – Multiple classes of errors.
2/4 - Consistent minor error/s.
3/4 – No obvious flaws, competent and effective composition.
4/4 - Masterful use of language and phrasing.

Elements of Poetry:
Self consistent and conforming poem type (if any);
Apt use of poetic, Middle English, foreign or otherwise exotic word forms (if any);
Known or accepted literary devices (if any)
?? (anything specific to the craft of poetry that is not included above)
/4 points.

0/4- None.
1/4 – Erratic or uninteresting structure.
2/4 - Effective yet inconsistent.
3/4 – Consistently suitable structure.
4/4 – Appropriately fitting and flawlessly framed.


Effectiveness:
The remaining 12 points are allocated at the reviewer’s discretion.
Elements to consider might include -

Addressing the theme:
Concept, connectedness, centrality;
Approach, form, originality;
Image, flow, emotional tone

Addressing the reading:
Aesthetic elements (visual, vocal, aural appeal);
Empathetic, evocative, or their antitheses (emotional, sensual appeal);
Interest, enjoyment (thematic, intellectual appeal)
/12 points.

Every scored entry should be accompanied by a brief review; consider highlighting strengths and weaknesses, suggestions (if any), and overall appeal.

Thirdly, is the system I put forth initially.

Originally Posted by Shawn's Judging System

Thematic Resonance - 5 Points
Technical Excellence - 5 Points
Composition - 5 Points
Message - 5 Points
Originality - 5 Points

Total - 25 Points

This is the deal and the balance. There are three categories that deal with non-technical aspects: thematic resonance, or how clearly the theme comes through; message, or the actual theme; and originality, or how uniquely the message is shown. Those three are worth 15 points, or 60% of the total score. Then there are two technical categories: Technical excellence, or grammar (as far as that may go) and spelling; and composition, or the use of poetic device in the poem.

And fourthly, the original system with the "Alliteration and Assonance" Category expanded to include all poetic devices.

Given the chances to vote, I've decided that cran's system would encompass a wide range of aspects of poetry and is probably the most extensive guide.

Cran's system is much too complex. Having worked on all areas of this challenge I strongly recommend that the system emplyed should be that most easily workable from the judge's point of view.

The original system was good, but any one of the three new ideas are better. Even expanded, the original system puts too much emphasis on using each of the categories. Between Cran's system, and shawn's system, I have to go with Shawn's. Even though Cran's system is equal concerning comfortable allocation of points, Shawn's technical categories focus a bit less on conventions, and allow a bit more room for working around a "flaw" that the judge may not think deserves all of the credit it's getting. Also, Cran's descriptions of each point value are in my mind a little bit too structured.

Originally Posted by Ilasir Maroa

The original system was good, but any one of the three new ideas are better. Even expanded, the original system puts too much emphasis on using each of the categories. Between Cran's system, and shawn's system, I have to go with Shawn's. Even though Cran's system is equal concerning comfortable allocation of points, Shawn's technical categories focus a bit less on conventions, and allow a bit more room for working around a "flaw" that the judge may not think deserves all of the credit it's getting. Also, Cran's descriptions of each point value are in my mind a little bit too structured.

I'd like to add that Cran's system would be much more time consuming and that is a great stroke against it given that the people who would be judging, I assume, have to devote time to things other than the forum.

Originally Posted by Baron

I'd like to add that Cran's system would be much more time consuming and that is a great stroke against it given that the people who would be judging, I assume, have to devote time to things other than the forum.

Silence in the court, the jury is to strike this evidence from the record, lol.

I do see what you're saying but I am not sure how time consuming it would be. I think all the methods are time consuming if judged properly.

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

Silence in the court, the jury is to strike this evidence from the record, lol.

I do see what you're saying but I am not sure how time consuming it would be. I think all the methods are time consuming if judged properly.

Some more than others. I've been involved in this from the beginning and I've seen all aspects of it. I can say quite clealy that I would not volunteer my own time if a system that is unnecessarily complex gets adopted.

Yes, I can see how a system with 3 sections
is much more complex than a system with 5 sections
or a system with 10 sections ...

and that:

The remaining 12 points are allocated at the reviewer’s discretion.
Elements to consider might include

would make it much more structured than set point benchmarks for everything ...

you're right - the original LM guide, adapted for poetry, is simply
way beyond anyone's capacity ...
I don't know how they've managed for this long ...

Originally Posted by Cran

Yes, I can see how a system with 3 sections
is much more complex than a system with 5 sections
or a system with 10 sections ...

and that:

would make it much more structured than set point benchmarks for everything ...

you're right - the original LM guide, adapted for poetry, is simply
way beyond anyone's capacity ...
I don't know how they've managed for this long ...

It's really beyond me that you've made such a big issue of trying to enforce your ideas, to the extent that two members of the admin team have now washed their hands of the challenge.

Whilst I am in favour of the system you've put together, Cran, I think we all need to have enough respect to allow each person to vote without drama. That goes for you too, baron. I will come down off of my soapbox now but you two play nice.

Cran look, personally, I would have voted for you if shawn's system had not been proposed. I just find Shawn's more open, because each category leaves room for a bit of flexibility. There's nothing wrong with your system, and if it wins the vote, then I have no problem with it being used.

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

Whilst I am in favour of the system you've put together, Cran, I think we all need to have enough respect to allow each person to vote without drama. That goes for you too, baron. I will come down off of my soapbox now but you two play nice.

This is better than the debate forum

Originally Posted by Baron

This is better than the debate forum

And I am usually straight in there in the debate forum!!

As long as you mean better in terms of people being respectful, Baron. Otherwise, keep it out of here. We had enough drama aready.

Originally Posted by Ilasir Maroa

As long as you mean better in terms of people being respectful, Baron. Otherwise, keep it out of here. We had enough drama aready.

Ilasir, I have kept my comments to the forum. I have not sent abusive pm's to those who have disagreed with me and have responded to only two of those that Cran has sent to me. The very fact of this challenge has been threatened by such behavious, which has caused both Foxee and Selorian to decide that they want nothing to do with it. All posts that I have made in debate about this have been with a view to keeping the challenge going and not to placate any one person, no matter how forcefully that person chooses to express his view.

Cran has repeatedly said that he will not post any more if he is causing upset, yet persists in the same attitude. As I initiated this challenge I would like to see it continue, not go down the tubes because one person insists on his view to the point of badgering all others involved until they no longer want anything to do with it.