Mermaid on the breakwater

Voodoo, I am not a poet. I don't even consider myself that much but I can write a good poem when I want to. I think a number on this board can, including yourself. Sure, nobody on here is a master yet but just because they are not that doesn't mean that you can call them an ass. Which is what your little poetic ramble suggested.

Agreed. Maybe Eiji knows what he's doing? I don't know, I am not defending anyone here or attacking them.

I think he meant choose your words carefully. Don't crush some poor guy/gal if they're just an up and coming poet. Sure, give them a good critique but don't be overly aggressive.

Voodoo

I think it'd be no great exercise to try to teach 2nd year stuff to a first year student, no. A graduate, I've not seen.

--debate forum--

Something wrong with that?

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Mermaid on the breakwater;

I meant Simic, not Eiji.

I called no one an ass. I said some people who happen to be assholes can say some good stuff, on occasion. Aggression does not mean stupidity, though it's about as good to put forth the same points in a less assholish way.

Yes, what you say is nice, I'm inclined to agree, but there

*is no grand poetic critique on this forum.*

Eiji Tunsinagi

I wish I knew what I was doing. I just try, like everyone else. People need to just put an extra large amount of thought into their work. And I think it's OK to crush spirits, so long as you give them some hope to play with.

A lot of critics out there are extremely intelligent, and when they see an up and coming piece of work out there, they feel they are entitled to strike it down without any sort of tact. I'd like to get use to that feeling of failure on some website than in the face of some horn-rimmed glasses wearing long-haired pretentious poetry professor. (Sorry about the stereotyping)

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"nothing is perfect, nothing lasts, and nothing is finished."

"how will you go about finding that thing the nature of which is totally unknown to you?"

ms. vodka

i would be the first person to admit that i've still got a hell of a lot to learn.

however, i also know the value of a good critique and can use them as they're intended.

i love experimentation in poetry. i think it's always good to question rules, break them and move forward.

however, i am quite aware that there are a lot of people out there who can teach me a whole lot. but only if i'm willing to listen.

critique for the sake of not hurting someone's feelings or stroking egos doesn't do that writer any good.

pretending that there is not such a thing as good poetry and bad poetry does not do anyone any good, and it's an insult to good poetry.

i don't think anyone has said that being mean to someone is okay, but being a liar is not okay either.

it's really not very complicated.

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Skidding Through the Mud Incognito
confessions of a modern day poetess

Eiji Tunsinagi

It is good to break the rules. Just know why, what, and how you're doing so. This meaning you must have knowledge of what you're breaking.

And true, critiquing just to hurt people or just to stroke egos is useless. But sometimes both these things can help if they're appropriately done. If something is good - really genuinely good - don't not tell them because you don't want them to think better of their work! And if it's a bad piece and deserving of being call shit and you really don't think calling it any less will do - tell it to them. That's usually what happens in reality anyway. Few people have enough respect to hold themselves back or step carefully.

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"nothing is perfect, nothing lasts, and nothing is finished."

"how will you go about finding that thing the nature of which is totally unknown to you?"

Baron

There's a missing ingredient in this debate - Hodge.

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Mermaid on the breakwater

I just don't know who you're aiming this at? Is it a swipe at everybody on here in general? Because, if so, you're implying that a lot of people on here just say "good poem, congratulations." even if they don't think it is. I am not so sure that's the case.

Like I said, everybody has something to learn, no matter what level they're at but, like Baron said earlier, is it necessary to be crass when offering a critique? I am not aiming that at anybody in specific because i simply haven't witnessed it.

To me, this argument is a lot of hot air and gas. I haven't seen any examples of what we're supposed to be arguing for and against. Can you clarify? Or can somebody else?

Baron

There's an example going on at the moment on this forum of someone reponding negatively to a critique. Instead of accepting that the response is the choice of the poet, and if they cannot learn from the critique offered then the loss is theirs, the thread has become yet another argument that has been carrying on for hours. Would it not be more mature to accept that this person has chosen to disregard quitiques offered and move on rather than try to force the issue and turn it into the dispute that it has become?

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Voodoo

If you mean Amber leaf, she's just being moronic. If it were about the poetic critique, I'd be happy to leave her be, yes.

If it's about someone else, well then, I'll happily whistle.

Fact is, most people don't want to read bad poetry and have the author sit there and exclaim the value of it, then try to neuter the reader for, of course, reading.

Shawn

I'm not quite sure this is Hodge's forte.

I think what's best for the people on this forum to do is have fun writing poetry; because, despite there being some really good work, I haven't yet seen anything that will go down in my archives.

It takes a lot of time to analyze a poem fully. If somebody really asked me to, I would; but, eh, if they'll take a few comments, that's quite all right with me.

What's the cause of some of the really awful poetry out there? Blissful ignorance, really. Not everyone has someone to teach them the tropes of poetry (I love that pun). It took quite a few English teachers before I got one that knew what she was doing, and that got me started with writing. (And I'm still trying to fit square blocks in triangle holes.) Some people just have an interest in poetry and jab their pen wherever it can fit... and it gets ugly.

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I have had a spider-tea free morning, thank you very much.

Mermaid on the breakwater

The problem I have, is that when I post something up, it just doesn't get critiqued. I have a few comments posted saying something like really good, oustanding or you've completely lost the plot with this fucking Frankenstein-esque piece but in either case, there is no critique forth coming.


I would love people to sit down and go through my poem or my short story and make actual suggestions rather than statements. If the poem is so good that it doesn't need to be critiqued then why do I not feel the same? I bumped my poem called Plato and asked for opinions and got none, I even put the twat in my signature but didn't get a critique.


Anyway, I can't be arsed getting all snippy about it.

Voodoo

I said most people don't take the time. A good poet (thus, very likely, good reader) would spend his time on a good poem they feel worthy. Few here are good poets (if horrid at writing, then good at reading) and even less are generous.

I'm not much of a reader of poetry, no.

Some things get passed over. Refer to the title of this thread.

Eiji Tunsinagi

I think sometimes people are scared they'll be seen as pushy and elitist, to tell you the truth.

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"nothing is perfect, nothing lasts, and nothing is finished."

"how will you go about finding that thing the nature of which is totally unknown to you?"

Voodoo

Refer to the proper way to take critique,

http://www.writingforums.com/poetry/87672-uluru.html

and the improper way to take it;

http://www.writingforums.com/poetry/...ack-smack.html

That's why people don't care anymore. Even when you do try to be gentle, the other person, if luck pervades, will probably be a moron.

_

Also, this board has too many entries, by far. Too damn many.

Baron

Not normally a factor taken into consideration...

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