Zensatis philosophical Discourse - Page 3 - Writers Forum

Shawn · 06-05-2007, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zensati

Can you really look to the future without focusing on death? death can occur at any stage of life. It is an unavoidable future reality. Please dont get into denial.

Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once.

Death is not a necessary proposition. We can live long after our actual deaths. The act of dying is not death in itself, but rather the relinquishing of the human body. It could be argued that intellectual death doesn't exist. I write partially because I fear intellectual death, whatever my write will be a further step into immortality, but I do not fear physical death. If we linger on it too long in one moment, we may find ourselves dead in the next.

Which brings up a question: what philisophical mode are you, Zensati?

Zensati · 06-07-2007, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once.

Death is not a necessary proposition. We can live long after our actual deaths. The act of dying is not death in itself, but rather the relinquishing of the human body. It could be argued that intellectual death doesn't exist. I write partially because I fear intellectual death, whatever my write will be a further step into immortality, but I do not fear physical death. If we linger on it too long in one moment, we may find ourselves dead in the next.

Which brings up a question: what philisophical mode are you, Zensati?

I dont put myself in any philosophical box, I merely am a seeker of truth and knowledge. I actually like it when other people challenge my Ideas because then I get a different perspective on things. which helps me get closer to the truth.

I wrote this thread as a kind of creative piece, people can accept or reject as they see fit. If others want to add their interpretation on these topics that would be great!

Zensati · 06-07-2007, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

I think denial would be refusing to acknowledge something that will come whether you like it or not.

I find it ironic that you call this a philosophical discourse but refuse to look into the future or the past. Philosophy is built upon the thought of past thinkers and the idea that we may one day know. In philosophy, the present is merely a bridge between the past and the future.

Unless you're a nihilist.

I'm Just a thinker. philosophy is just a bunch of mental Constructions, It has no basis in reality.

Zensati · 06-07-2007, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

Good idea. Let's all go back to the idealized dark ages where everyone was a happy little farmer who never contracted deadly diseases such as smallpox, tetanus, or rabies, and who didn't live in squalor and ignorance at all. Yes, let's get rid of capitalism because it has done absolutely no good at all!

Those who reap the most benefits of a system are often the most likely to be ignorant of them. If capitalism didn't exist, you wouldn't have luxury of sitting on a computer and making such ridiculous statements. In fact, computers probably wouldn't exist. Modern medicine wouldn't exist, mass communication wouldn't exist, the concept of conservation wouldn't exist—hell, science as we know it wouldn't even exist.

You make a lot of vague statements about the supposed degeneracy of our society and some "real beauty" that exists outside of the real world, but they hold no substance. Your argument is based solely on a denouncement of capitalism (but no real reason why it's bad or any proposed solution besides a completely unrealistic knee-jerk reaction to it).

Its true capitilism has its uses, but so does a Nuclear weopon, Capitilism could be healthy in managable doses, but when Consumerism is taken to excess's noone can deny its toxic effects on the environment.

Zensati · 06-07-2007, 06:43 AM

All that I want to say about capitilism is lets use it to our advantage, and not use it to destroy the planet that perpetuates our survival as a race. No one can deny that what we are currently doing to our environment is going to effect us in the long term. All that i want to advocate is why cant we return to more simple existances which are more in harmony with the planetary ecology. I guess what I want to say is we can manage things alot better by not increasing the greed all the time.

I think the key words here are Greed-Management.

But Capitilists think Greed-is Good!

Hodge · 06-07-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zensati

I'm Just a thinker. philosophy is just a bunch of mental Constructions, It has no basis in reality.

Actually, philosophy pretty much built everything we have. From political theory to science to morality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zensati

Its true capitilism has its uses, but so does a Nuclear weopon, Capitilism could be healthy in managable doses, but when Consumerism is taken to excess's noone can deny its toxic effects on the environment.

I can. I don't think you're very familiar with economic theory. Before capitalism, there was mercantilism, which was fairly similar but involved the state (which was, at the time, a monarchy) to determine which companies got to do what. State-sanctioned monopolies. Before that, there was feudalism, and if you want to talk environmental rape then look at that. There was no concept of private property, so people had no motivation to preserve their land. They had common farming grounds, so each person took as much as they could (read: raped the land) before the next guy got it.

Consumerism is also separate from capitalism. Both have their uses, and neither are the reason for any perceived decay in modern society (if any decay even exists -- we're pretty much better off than we ever have been).

Don't idealize the past. It really wasn't that great. Today's world is much nicer -- if you're a woman you don't even have to worry about dying during childbirth. And we really do have capitalism to thank for it, even if capitalism was just a natural progression from mercantilism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zensati

All that I want to say about capitilism is lets use it to our advantage, and not use it to destroy the planet that perpetuates our survival as a race. No one can deny that what we are currently doing to our environment is going to effect us in the long term. All that i want to advocate is why cant we return to more simple existances which are more in harmony with the planetary ecology. I guess what I want to say is we can manage things alot better by not increasing the greed all the time.

I think the key words here are Greed-Management.

But Capitilists think Greed-is Good!

You don't understand the significance of this, apparently. Greed is natural, there is no way you're going to get rid of it. Capitalism takes this greed and instead of focusing it into something destructive, pits every person against each other so that they compete. Then greed becomes the motivation that producers use to create a better product, lower prices, innovate new ways of doing things, and whatever else they think will make consumers more likely to purchase their goods or services.

Environmental rape has nothing to do with it.

As for living in harmony with nature... Nature isn't harmonious. It never has been. It is in a constant state of flux in which the strong organisms survive and the weak don't. We happen to be the strongest. We use our brains to create societies and technology because physically, we aren't very well suited for living in the wild. Our young take a very long time to mature and very very vulnerable, we have no natural weapons, we aren't particularly fast or strong, and we don't even have enough hair to keep insects off of us anymore.

And survival of the race? What happens when a gigantic meteor slams into the planet? What about when the sun turns into a red giant and engulfs the earth? What if a cosmic dust cloud erodes our atmosphere? What if there's a nearby gamma ray burst that strips the surface of our planet of life?

No. There can never be harmony with nature because it's not harmonious with itself. We are doing what so many billions of years of evolution have led us to do. One of the other neato things about capitalism is that problems get solved really, really fast. You complain about environmental rape. It is in the best interests of a company to have a planet to work on, so they're not going to destroy it. When we found out CFC's depleted the ozone layer, they were banned. Companies very quickly found ways to produce aerosols, air conditioning systems, and refrigerators that worked just fine without producing CFC's. When DDT was banned (even though it shouldn't have been) they produced new pesticides. When the pollution credit system was introduced they found ways to curb emissions.

Capitalism with several doses of socialism rocks.

Shawn · 06-07-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

Capitalism with several doses of socialism rocks.

Absolutely. I'd hate to admit it, but I'm mostly a socialist. I don't approve of 35 hour workweeks or anything. But I think a new face for socialism is in order. People inside capitalism tend to view other economic systems as evil... though I absolutely despise communism... when they really aren't.

Capitalism is the way of the future. It's the way we are going to get off this planet and hopefully increase our chances for survival. I do think, however, that a more conservative political mode is needed for those who would like to enjoy life under a welfare state.

To Zensati: Why did you name this a philosophical discourse, then?

Zensati · 06-07-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

Absolutely. I'd hate to admit it, but I'm mostly a socialist. I don't approve of 35 hour workweeks or anything. But I think a new face for socialism is in order. People inside capitalism tend to view other economic systems as evil... though I absolutely despise communism... when they really aren't.

Capitalism is the way of the future. It's the way we are going to get off this planet and hopefully increase our chances for survival. I do think, however, that a more conservative political mode is needed for those who would like to enjoy life under a welfare state.

To Zensati: Why did you name this a philosophical discourse, then?

I may write something later on different Philosophies, so the Title Fits, even though I consider philosophy just as mental speculation.

Blind Faith in Capitilism is all most as scary as a Christians blind faith in Christ.
Capitilism is overated, If anything it has slowed down progress, because it has wasted human energy by forcing people to be slaves to the dollar.

Zensati · 06-07-2007, 08:23 PM

As I have discussed before Death can come at any time, no one knows when it will happen plenty of young people die through war, violence, disease and accidents, thats why we should make the most of our lives while we still have it. go after what you want but do it in a moral way not harming others or our environment.

Hodge · 06-07-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zensati

I may write something later on different Philosophies, so the Title Fits, even though I consider philosophy just as mental speculation.

Blind Faith in Capitilism is all most as scary as a Christians blind faith in Christ.
Capitilism is overated, If anything it has slowed down progress, because it has wasted human energy by forcing people to be slaves to the dollar.

You obviously don't understand capitalism, then. Under a capitalist system, you have to constantly innovate or fall behind and get pushed out by the competition. There's a reason why technology started advance at an unprecedented rate in the middle of the 18th century, and it ain't because capitalism slows down progress.

This isn't blind faith in anything. This is tried and tested economic theory. Capitalism has its flaws, but you won't find a better system already out there.

Also, capitalism focuses on efficiency. There is no "wasted human energy," as people who don't perform well for a firm are typically fired (nor are they slaves to the dollar). I love when people go on about how evil money is. Are you also against trade? I should hope not, because money is just a means of trade that makes things MUCH easier.

Zensati · 06-07-2007, 08:34 PM

People go on about human rights and freedoms, but what about the rights of other living beings such as the plants and animals, It seems as though other living beings only have the right to be exploited by us. At the moment there are many endangered species of animals all over the world who have been exploited by man to the point of extinction.

Is'nt It about time that mankind recognised the rights of the animals to exist peacefully in their native enviroments without our exploitation and interference with their environment.

A vegetarian diet would be a good start in allowing the animals their basic right to exist, We may be superior mentally to them but we should use our power to benefit them not exploit them for our gain.

The more compassionate we are the more Human we become.

Zensati · 06-07-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

You obviously don't understand capitalism, then. Under a capitalist system, you have to constantly innovate or fall behind and get pushed out by the competition. There's a reason why technology started advance at an unprecedented rate in the middle of the 18th century, and it ain't because capitalism slows down progress.

This isn't blind faith in anything. This is tried and tested economic theory. Capitalism has its flaws, but you won't find a better system already out there.

Also, capitalism focuses on efficiency. There is no "wasted human energy," as people who don't perform well for a firm are typically fired (nor are they slaves to the dollar). I love when people go on about how evil money is. Are you also against trade? I should hope not, because money is just a means of trade that makes things MUCH easier.

If theres no more environment for the capitalists to exploit then I guess money will have no more Value. You think that human progress is totally based on economic factors but there is more to human advancement than that. Thats the whole point, you seem to be missing it, because you can only see things on the materialistic platform.

Hodge · 06-07-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zensati

If theirs no more environment for the capitilists to exploit then I guess money will have no more Value. You think that human progress is totally based on economic factors but there is more to human advancement than that. Thats the whole point, you seem to be missing it, because you can only see things on the materialistic platform.

Umm, no. I'm trying to educate you on what capitalism is, because you're sounding like one of those middle ages fanboys who thinks that before capitalism everyone and everything had it good.

If you really understood what capitalism was, you wouldn't make such baseless claims as "if anything it has slowed down progress." It irks me to no end when people who reap all the benefits of capitalism (like the ability to sit on the computer and not have to worry about whether you'll have food in winter or if you'll catch the flu and die) sit there and demonize it.

I don't know where you get the idea that capitalism equates to environmental destruction, either. That's more of an industrialization thing, and if it weren't for capitalism the destruction would be even worse.

Shawn · 06-07-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zensati

I may write something later on different Philosophies, so the Title Fits, even though I consider philosophy just as mental speculation.

Blind Faith in Capitilism is all most as scary as a Christians blind faith in Christ.
Capitilism is overated, If anything it has slowed down progress, because it has wasted human energy by forcing people to be slaves to the dollar.

Capitalism is progress, Socialism is welfare. The American economy is geared towards progress, but very few welfare programs.

Zensati · 06-07-2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

Capitalism is progress, Socialism is welfare. The American economy is geared towards progress, but very few welfare programs.

Capitalism is progress? I've lived in a capitalistic society all my life and I have'nt seen society making much progress. except maybe progress towards self destruction. but I guess one mans destruction is another mans progress, Its all a matter of perspective right?