Rico

well, I'll steer clear of the whole gay marriage issue. As a gay man, I firmly support it, but I refuse to participate here in a flamewar. I'll just throw in one comment and then leave - Kane, you're a narrowminded SOB.

As to your piece, Max, I think it was very well written and enjoyable to read. really did capture my emotions. I don't live in the U.S., but its pretty much the same across most of the world.

(rooting for Spain to legalize a gay marriage bill that's in the works)

horrorcrafter

Nice work.

American politicians can go to HELL!

Same to narrow-minded Christian Conservatives.

Keep up the socially significant writing. "Hung" is fine.

Horrorcrafter

__________________
Canadian Lynx are beautiful sensitive creatures which are very good mothers and they make a wide variety of sounds such as meows, purrs, cough-barks, growls, and screams like a woman. She is the next mammal to become extinct in North America largely because we waste so much paper. Please reduce, reuse, and recycle. Cheers, Horrorcrafter

Kane

Me, narrow-minded? I really don't think I am. I'm actually rather offended that in this day and age, straight people are made to think of themselves as narrow-minded or wrong for believing that people should stick with heterosexual sex. It seems that today, if you should hold any opinion that isn't in full support of homosexuality you are treated as though you just stepped out of the backwoods. Like there is something wrong with me for seeing a penis and vagina as naturally compatible. We live under the general consensus that if it feels good, do it. There is no more need for self-control or temperance any longer, just complete acceptance of any lifestyle, no matter how debase.

Now, as to my close-mindedness... I've NEVER looked down on anyone for being gay or treated them in a foul manner. Personally, I don't think it's right that two of the same sex should lie with one another, but I would never impose my will on someone else. I do, however, enjoy my right to decided for myself and to teach my son what I believe is right and wrong. I'm terrified of the day when he is old enough to process the liberal agenda that the school system is going to shove down his throat 5 days a week. I say do as you will: it's your life and no one can live it but you. However, I do see it as wrong when you infringe on my right to believe as I do without being made to feel bad about myself for it, or likewise my son.

I apologize if I offended you with my statement that I don't think gays should marry, I just don't see the need. If I were gay, I wouldn't choose to get married because I don't see a need for it. I think, if you are going to be in a long term gay relationship, you should be able to receive the same "benefits" as does a married man and woman. I'm not sure what these benefits should be besides shared health insurance, life insurance, the right to choose health care options if one or the other should be injured... Whatever, you get my meaning. I just think marriage itself should be left for a man and a woman: the coming together of two familes as one, to pass on bloodline and the family name and such. So this makes me a narrow-minded cretin? I think it's the opposite, that you should make me feel less than normal so you can indulge yourself in sex that goes against what our bodies were made for.

I don't doubt that gay sex feels good, else people probably wouldn't participate in it. But anal intercourse damages the rectal cavity because it wasn't made for it. Two lesbians can achieve climax, I am sure, by oral stimulation, an assortment of toys or even digital manipulation, but to say that it's completely natural for two people of the same sex to engage in such an activity is what I view as narrow-minded. I see it as a justification of your 'lifestyle', and fuck anyone who doesn't cater to our definition of normal.

I think an adult possesses free will, and should be allowed to exercise that free will, so long as he or she isn't hurting anyone else. But if you get in my face because I don't jump up and down in adulation over your choice, then you are infringing on my free will. I think I am very open minded, thank you very much, for me to accept people as they are, even if I don't agree with what they do.

Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor

I'm highly skeptical of one point you made. Where is the evidence that anal intercourse is dangerous; furthermore, if it is dangerous, how is it more dangerous than regular intercourse?

Yamato145

how can you accuse him of being narrow-minded
it really pisses me off that you would accuse someone of being narrow minded just because they dont agree with you!
i mean for all you know he has looked into and intelligently listened to all points of view and has just finally settled on the one that makes the most sense to him which is complete open-mindedness
it just like im a christian ... doesnt mean im open or closed minded
i have looked into many religions and just settled on the one that i truly belive to be right
now had i just assumed christianity was the best without a second thought i would be closed-minded.
-Yamz

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"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music"
-George Carlin
Why is common sense so damn uncommon in this country
peep the space: http://www.myspace.com/yamato_ishida

horrorcrafter

Knowing what is right is one thing.
Forcing that on someone else is another.

Horrorcrafter

__________________
Canadian Lynx are beautiful sensitive creatures which are very good mothers and they make a wide variety of sounds such as meows, purrs, cough-barks, growls, and screams like a woman. She is the next mammal to become extinct in North America largely because we waste so much paper. Please reduce, reuse, and recycle. Cheers, Horrorcrafter

Hodge

KANE:

Homosexuality occurs in nature. It is perfectly natural, can not be changed, and was accepted in most societies until the advent of Christianity. Since homosexuality has been around longer than Christianity, the problem lies with the religion and not with the gay man/woman.

Census 2000 Family Household Composition

Not married, no children 32%
Married, no children 30%
Married, with children 26%
Not married, with children 12%

The purpose of marriage obviously isn't just to start a family. Not in this day and age, anyway, where sex is more for recreation and less for procreation.

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Science

Hodge

Hypocritical? No. Pedophilia may very well be biological, although pedophiles are almost always molested or sexually abused as children, so more likely it's social. Homosexuals obviously do not all come from homosexual households.

Here's how homosexuality works:

Homosexuality is a scale. All of us fall on this sexual scale somewhere, but the majority of us fall on the "likes opposite sex" spectrum. Not all the way, mind you, because we are all attracted to the same sex somewhat. This is how you are able to look at a member of the same sex and say, "boy, he/she sure is attractive!" I can look at Brad Pitt and I know he's a very sexy man just the same as the ladies on this board can look at Cameron Diaz and know that she's a very attractive woman.

Now, the sexual orientation of a person is determined very early on in pregancy when either a strong dose of testosterone and a low dose of estrogen or a low dose of testosterone and high dose of estrogen get into a fetus' system. It's a very delicate process, because the wrong amounts can create a person who is physically female but mentally male, or a person who is physically male and mentally male, but possesses a stronger attraction to men than women.


There are rare cases where someone will "turn" gay, although that's not what this is at all. Sometimes, a child will be molested or abused by a close family member or friend of the opposite sex. They'll grow up harboring a deep fear and/or resentment towards the opposite sex because of this, and this fear or hatred becomes so strong that it overrided the sexual attraction they feel. This happens primarily in women, although I have found a couple cases where it's happened in men.

So Kane, I'm sorry buddy, but you are, to some extent, gay. Just as I am and everyone else on this board (except the asexuals, but that's an entirely different condition).

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Science

Rico

I'd like to come back here and thrown in some more useless info. Hodge, I completely agree with you. When I was in college, I read a study by...Alfred Kinsey, I believe. It said something to the effect that about 37% of men have at least one homosexual experience to orgasm in their adult lives, another 13% have a homosexual fantasy to orgasm, and about a fifth have had more homosexual experiences than heterosexual ones. There were women's numbers, too, but those I don't recall...

Hodge

I'm just really tired of people pulling all sorts of BS reasons out of their asses to bash homosexuality (no offense Kane, I'm sure you're not just making things up—I'm referring to political and religious leaders)... Did you know that it's perfectly legal here in the United States to discriminate against someone based on their sexual orientation? Every other thing is protected—race, gender, religion—but not homosexuality. Pure bullshit.

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Science

Rico

Wow, I didn't know that. Then again, I suppose I'm still at least half in the closet. No one I work with knows...but I know that if they did, heh, I could kiss my career goodbye.

Kane

hehe, I'm not gay. Am I capable of being aroused by a man? Sure. I'm a guy, I can be aroused by a pair of jeans or some silky sheets. I find Brad Pitt to be very attractive, but I don't want to have sex with him. It's not difficult to understand why men can be attracted to other men. A man in good physical shape is an attractive thing, muscular, angled. But it doesn't turn me on. For me it's women. I love their curves, everything about them. Each little line on a fit woman drives me crazy.



... I don't think it's legal or acceptable to discriminate based on sexuality. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the only people in the USA who are open territory for legal discrimination are white males. You can't tell a black man he can't work for you because of the color of his skin, but you can tell a white man that. In fact, the government goes out of it's way to see that minorities get jobs and loans and grants that white men don't have available. It's perfectly acceptable to bash christian men, but bash gay men and you are looked at with disgust. I don't really care, though I used to a great deal. These days I see the world as a big pile of shit just waiting to be flushed down the toilet. It's probably how I am able to sleep at night with my, "stay out of my way and I'll do the same for you" attitude. I don't even know why I post in these forums anymore. The outcome is never worth the headache. I think I'll try and just stick to my writing and schoolwork and remind myself not to call bullshit when I see it anymore. I'm going to have a stroke before I'm 30 otherwise.

horrorcrafter

Hodge you were profound. All forms of sexuality can be reckoned along a scale. Thus, a single person could be:
attracted to women- 87%
attracted to men- 11%
attracted to writing - 2%

Being totally asexual myself, I can still say that Tom Cruise is better looking than Leonid Breznev. Of course, you have to realize that those who proclaim to be totally heterosexual, such as our christian conservative country, are using something called "repression" to keep down those naughty feelings. Don't let them get to you, um, whoever wrote this story. Horrorcrafter

__________________
Canadian Lynx are beautiful sensitive creatures which are very good mothers and they make a wide variety of sounds such as meows, purrs, cough-barks, growls, and screams like a woman. She is the next mammal to become extinct in North America largely because we waste so much paper. Please reduce, reuse, and recycle. Cheers, Horrorcrafter

Hodge

Kane, whether you like it or not your brain is wired to be sexually attracted to men. To a much lesser extent, yes, and sexual arousal is completely different from sexual attraction, but you are a little homosexual. If society's inhibitions didn't apply to you or I, we'd both occasionally indulge in hot dogs (like the ancient Greeks and Romans did—although not so much with teenage boys, I think) instead of tacos.

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Science

Rico

well, Kane, hehe...

I think you got me in a nutshell...