Thread: Improving your writing.

One of our older members has been in hospital recently. On getting out he started to post, but then started a thread in which he said he would wait a bit longer because “I'm just not up to the concentrated effort of posting”.

I can almost hear some of our members asking “What effort?” or “Can he really be that ill?” These are the writers for whom spontaneity rather than thought rules composition. The irony is they then fail to understand why they cannot write satisfactorily when they try to produce their masterpiece.
I have several times seen the opinion expressed that good writers are born, they do not learn their craft, poppycock. True writing requires some natural ability, but it is a craft, and unless it is learned, fostered and nurtured it will not be acquired.

Let me make an analogy. As a young man I worked in a swimming pool and saw several county class swimmers training. In search of a perfect style they would come in every day and swim for two or three hours with their coach walking along the side of the pool shouting instructions. I have no doubt that they did road training and weight training as well, however, this was not about fitness, that part of the training came first. Nor was it about natural ability, that was there before they started training.

It was purely about style; and it would shave seconds off their times, they didn’t come in for a splash about six days a week and expect to swim competitively on Sunday.

The member I referred to at the start once commented that a decent critique took him at least an hour to write. He writes good crit., and very decent stories. My advice to any member, reading or writing anything, think of it all as practice, you are a mental athlete starting training, leaving the car and walking up the shop, a first step to getting fit.

I am sure this will improve your writing, but if you are unconvinced, and think your masterpiece will come anyway, look at it like this; this is all on the web, in the public domain, one day, when you are big, some columnist will look up your posts, with their bad grammar, bad spelling, misused words and lack of capitalisation, and use them to hold you up to public ridicule in some cheap article, don’t give them the opportunity, at least be careful with your posts.

Grade one, initial fitness training:-
Consider what you want to say, and if you are sure you want to say it.

Turn on spell check, it won’t catch everything, there for their, will slip past it for example, but it will show you some things, including some typos. When you see a red line, don’t simply click to install the correct version. Typing it in can be a learning experience, and save you a future correction.
Use capitals where appropriate, especially when referring to yourself, you are important and deserve a capital “I”.

When you feel you have finished check through your post, read it to yourself. Have you left odd words out, or phrased something in an awkward way? Did you put your thoughts in a logical order? Will your thought be as clear to the reader as it was to you?

Regard every small post as practice for the day when YOU WILL BE GREAT. In the meantime your posts will become easier to read and you will be taken more seriously. It is just a beginning, but it’s a good beginning.

Thank you for the inspiration Ox, be well soon.

Hello Olly

I second this, and would have posted something similar were it not for my newness to the forum, and meagre post count.

How many people on here don't have a dictionary near their usual writing place? Be ashamed, be very ashamed.

Scott.

Good post Olly. You articulated what I've been thinking. Stepping outside of yourself and critiquing your own work with an unbiased eye is a hard thing. No one wants to admit it if their work's bad. That's why these forums are good; they have an unbiased opinion of your work. You already know which posts to ignore. These are the ones that have negative comments just to get your hackles up.

Listen to the ones who are very detailed about punctuation, sentence structure, grammar, the flow of the story, etc. You also need to proofread your work. Olly was right; don't completely rely on spellcheck. It is a wise idea to have an online dictionary/thesaurus in your favorites list. Have it open in a separate window for quick viewing. If not online, have print versions.

I recommend 3 books I've bought so far on writing: The First Five Pages by Noah Lukeman. Pretty self-explanatory title. These pages will either make the book buyer want to buy it or not. Lots of basic, fundamental things we should already know, but also some things that are not so obvious to the inexperienced writer, & it applies to both fiction & non-fiction writing. There is a great quote from this book, attributed to Francis Ford Coppola, on writing: "...there's a hormone secreted into the bloodstream of most writers that makes them hate their own work while they are doing it, or immediately after.This, coupled with the chorus of critical reaction from those priveleged to take a first look, is almost enough to discourage further work entirely."

On Writing Well - The Classic Guide to Writing Nonfiction by William Zinsser. 30th anniversary edition. It isn't a classic for nothing. Whatever genre you choose, whether it's travel, biography, technology, etc., it is very easy to understand and not pretentious towards its students.

The Everything Guide to Writing Nonfiction by Richard D. Bank. This is a soup to nuts/A to Z guide on what you need to know, including but not limited to: Avoiding copyright infringement, research, interviewing, writing excercises, ethics, selling your book, publishing, right to privacy, & everything in between, before, & after.

There are many self-help guides on fiction writing also. You'll know which one's right for you, or learn something from all of them, as I have.

Thank you guys, I was a little nervous about posting it originally, after all many of our members are not interested in getting published, making a career etc, Then I thought even if you are only flexing your writing muscles and enjoying yourself it still makes sense to do it well.

I was also very nervous that I had made some glaring error, be sure I checked it a time or two

Well said, Olly.

Our language (on both sides of the big water), as well as the communication it is supposed to enable and ease, is being eroded daily. Only concerted effort by those who still care can rescue it. Which means that we all have to care--even when we're in a hurry.

Yep, I'm a proud, card-carrying, Word Nazi. When you sue me, make sure there are no typos!

Nice read, Olly. I think you touched on some great writing habits that everyone should keep in mind. Got a few nits, mostly grammatical, here,

These are the writers for whom spontaneity rather than thought rules composition. The irony is they then fail to understand why they cannot write satisfactorily when they try to produce their masterpiece.

I disagree with this thinking. Just because a member chooses not to polish a forum post doesn't mean they're incapable of polishing it, or any other kind of writing.

they do not learn their craft, poppycock

This makes it look like poppycock is their craft. To give the word more emphasis I'd make it it's own sentence, as in: they do not learn their craft. Poppycock.

It was purely about style; and it would shave seconds off their times, they didn’t come in for a splash about six days a week and expect to swim competitively on Sunday.

For me, the wording here is strange. Here's one idea for this part,

It was purely about style, and working on style would shave seconds off their times. They didn’t come in for a splash about six days a week and expect to swim competitively on Sunday.

think of it all as practice, you are a mental athlete

I'd exchange this comma with a semi-colon.

in the public domain, one day

I'd exchange this comma for a period.

article, don’t give them the opportunity, at least be careful with your posts.

I'd exchange the first comma for a period and the second one for a semi-colon.

Turn on spell check, it won’t catch everything, there for their, will slip past it for example, but it will show you some things, including some typos.

I would make a few grammar and wording changes here,

Turn on spell check. It won’t catch everything, there for their will slip past it for example, but it will show you your typos.

referring to yourself, you are

I'd exchange this comma with a semi-colon or a period.

When you feel you have finished check through your post

I'd consider a comma after finished.

Originally Posted by caelum

I disagree with this thinking. Just because a member chooses not to polish a forum post doesn't mean they're incapable of polishing it, or any other kind of writing.

But why would you allow your writing to become sloppy just because you're on a forum? Bad habits are bad habits everywhere. I don't stand for mistakes in text messages, let alone on a forum. Occasionally one will slip through -- nobody's perfect -- but I make a concerted effort to ensure my posts here are error-free. When it comes to my work, I take even greater pride.

If someone joins the forum and posts something like: "O my gawd! Guys, guys, guys, u realy hve to check out my work, I think its awsome and I need some fedback, can you hlp me???????!!!!!" I tend to take this person less seriously than I would someone who attempts to show a modicum of professionalism. This is a writing site, after all, and I know people are at different levels, but there's no excuse for text-talk or excessive punctuation.

Bottom line: If you want your writing to improve, don't think you can afford to be sloppy in one outlet and make up for it in another. Be consistent.

My heart sank when I saw that list of blue boxes, caelum, punctuation has never been a strong point. I was heartened a little to see that a fair bit of it is stylistic opinion. I will stick by "some typos", quite often a letter missed or added will produce a valid word "Many errors and some typos" would have been better, avoiding the repetition of some and possibly more accurate.

I am with Sam, it is the point I was trying to make about swimmers practising style rather than strength or speed, consistency helps, sloppy habits as well as good habits tend to overlap boundaries.

My observation was on the truth of the matter, because the logic does indeed not follow. Just because someone chooses not to polish a post doesn't mean they're incapable of doing so; whether or not they should is another matter which I took no stance on. But I think I shall.

Not strictly adhering to the rules of writing is often for people a stylistic choice, not representative of their writerly abilities, and in casual settings hardly necessary. Indeed if someone insists on adhering to every rule even in casual settings, they appear overly formal and foppish. Some people do prefer to wear a tux to McDonald's, this is true, but then again some people do not.

Why do you think a writing forum is casual? If it happened to be a chat-room, that would be different. This is a place you come to better your writing, which makes my earlier point a very valid one. Bad habits (and old ones) die hard. If you get into a habit of being sloppy here, you will carry that sloppiness to your own work. It's not a great effort to post correctly. It comes down to a matter of how much you care. If you don't give a toss, you aren't going to endear yourself to many writers who do.

To use your McDonald's analogy: Imagine you walked into a business meeting in a pair of jeans and a vest. How many people in that room do you think would take you seriously? Even if you happened to be the smartest person on the planet, first impressions are lasting impressions.

Why do you think a writing forum is casual?

Why do you think that it isn't? Maybe people come to learn a thing or two in the workshops, in which area proper writing can reasonably be expected. Many people I'm sure couldn't care less about learning but come for the emotional impressions, feedback, and company. And I still don't buy that because someone writes casual in one instance they will in all. Again, the logic doesn't follow, people are perfectly capable of both.

To use your McDonald's analogy: Imagine you walked into a business meeting in a pair of jeans and a vest. How many people in that room do you think would take you seriously? Even if you happened to be the smartest person on the planet, first impressions are lasting impressions.

You should never judge a book by its cover.

I disagree. While it's not entirely necessary to be spot on during quick back & forth responses such as "I'll post more later", and "I'll look for it tomorrow, Thanks", I think it is necessary when you're trying to get your post, whether it's a poem, story, or discussion on real events taken seriously, or at least to have some credibility.

I think you do too. In post #6 you brought to light some of Olly's punctuation & grammatical errors. Isn't that important? Sure it is, since it's about improving your writing, which is what this site is mostly about (with a couple of fun distractions). When I write something that I want to be taken seriously, I'd like someone to critique it in a constructive way so I know where I'll need to improve, & also how they see the story as an outsider. Btw I use ampersands simply for convenience, except when I'm posting a story.

Well said Olly. All that I write here on the forum is a little slice of who I am as a person. My words are written as opposed to spoken so they also express who I am as a writer. I'd hate for people to think I'm a twit and hold a negative predisposition to my writing. I wouldn’t mind being a twit, so long as I'm a twit who can write!

Originally Posted by caelum

Just because someone chooses not to polish a post doesn't mean they're incapable of doing so; whether or not they should is another matter which I took no stance on.

ROFL

...up with which I will not put.