Thread: Josh

Ian - I like it. I see what you and Divus were trying to say. The point of view is still there, but it's all smoother. Thank you.

MJ - Thanks for your comment, but now I need your opinion. Which works best, the original, or Ian's suggested rewrite?

OOH Ian. I am not sure how to respond now.
I read what you say but it was a bit harsh and this is fundamentally an American Forum. I try not to be rude when I am in a neighbour’s parlour.

Let me use a different style.
When I was a young boy, a large area of the world was ruled and directed by a privileged and predominantly English elite. The class conscious, conceited, inhibited, inward looking society of pre-war Great Britain into which I was born, was swept away by WW2 and became within thirty years the most racially diverse nation in Europe. Now it is one in Europe which is almost uniquely predicted to have a rising population over the coming decades. This rise is likely to come largely from immigrants building their own families.

Agreed, there are significant problems in absorbing people from different cultures but I for one would say that probably Little Britain will in the long run benefit from multi-culturism. The absorption is not a one way process.

Mark - Thanks much. I thought I had already answered you - apparently not. I came back to copy out my original piece and steal Ian's edits for a rewrite, which I'll post later today.

Edit - Ooooops. Now I see I did.

Originally Posted by garza

MJ - Thanks for your comment, but now I need your opinion. Which works best, the original, or Ian's suggested rewrite?

I suppose Ian has a point, although I have to confess that I did not see it that way until he pointed it out. Perhaps that is because I was not looking at the mechanics, but visualizing the story. The only thing I found misleading was Josh's age, which you lend to the fact that he was more grown up than you from a five-year-old perspective. Although I know he is also five, I picture him as taller and older. That is just me though. Perhaps you could describe his physical characteristics a bit more.

The "I's" and "Me's" is my achilles heel in writing.

Josh may have been some months older, and maybe a bit taller, but not much. We were opposites in appearance. I was the whitest kid in town with very light blond hair, a true 'cotton top', and skin that has always refused to tan. Josh had very dark skin and tight black hair cut close.

Hanging around with Josh and with the other section kids I learned to speak what is now called Ebonics from an early age. Many believe it's bad English, but it's not. It has it's own structure, it's own verb forms, and it's own rhythms.

Josh was the least child-like of any of my early childhood friends, black or white, and that includes kids who were two or three years older. Just to ride in a car made me happy. Not Josh. He wanted to know how the engine worked. If memory serves correctly, his father was section foreman. In some ways he was like my grandfather. Both demanded the attendance of the entire family at the dinner table, and both demanded that everyone at the table take part in the conversation. Josh's father lacked my grandfather's Irish sense of humour and love of poetry and song, but made up for it with a gift for telling of the simple events of the day in a way that made them interesting. Both influenced the way I think and the way I write.

We could both read fairly well; both families were big on teaching children to read at an early age, and both families were disappointed when we became addicted to comic books. Fortunately there was never a prohibition. My grandfather's advice never to tell a child not to read carried the day.

We also had early lessons in economics. The older kids got us started trading comics, and we learned to keep up with fluctuations in the market. One day a Superman might be worth two Mickey Mouse, but an influx of new Superman comics and lagging investment in Mickey Mouse could easily reverse the values. Our group was made up of kids from around five to around ten years of age, and I suspect that our comic book trading worked exactly the way the major stock markets work.

...our comic book trading worked exactly the way the major stock markets work.

Garza, love the way you bring things together like this.

aside: holiday all week and still not put pen to paper on intended book. Probably lost somewhere between chores and procrastination. LOL

Ian

Gentlemen, a thought comes to my mind. There are four of us discussing a piece written in English by Garza. However we each come from a country which speaks a slightly different version of the English language. For this piece of Garza's taking into consideration the subject matter it is appropriate to leave the written words as they might have been spoken.

The other day, on another forum, a young woman remarked that I had written a piece which had reminded her of my English/English upbringing - actually I could not see it, so I wrote back another short article in Cockney/English. However there was no subtlety in the follow up article and I felt a need to refer back to Michael Caine to make my point.

But with hindsight she was right - if I can bring into the written word the sound of what would have been the spoken word, then I should do so.

I have looked at Garza's article and I would say: 'Leave it', the only question I might have is the frequent use of the word 'both' in the article on this page but the picture created in my mind by the story as written is appropriate for the article.

Dv

Gentlemen

Whilst reading back this thread, thoughts came to me. So I have written them up today in Writers Workshop, where perhaps the thinking belongs but where my writing is not usually to be found. To me the article is relevant in several ways to issues raised in Garza's story of 'Josh' but it would be wrong to have posted it here.

Dv

That's a great story, garza.

I've read it several times now, and with regard to the use of "I", it wasn't noticeable to me until I read the comments. Now that I have read them, I notice.

Perhaps when a story is told in the first person, the reader sees the "I" as invisible. My advice would be to only remove the ones where doing so does not exchange any passage for something that is less effective grammatically.

What if we were part magician? Why not make things disappear? Like the "I."

If you need it, use it. You're writing in the first person. Don't use more "I" than you have to but don't mess anything up to eliminate an "I." Make the story so good, (it is) that the "I" is invisible to the reader.

Hi Divus,

Yes, on re-writing Garza's lines it became obvious, I had lost the charm of Garza's direct approach.

I immediately wrote "my bad, original please." I.e. please don't change it.

On the other hand, reducing self-refs can open exciting new approaches for the writer. Perhaps we're in for a double treat here?

Best,

Ian (smile)

PS: will pop in tomorrow to send y'all holiday greetings.

All of you young fellows are excellent writers, which is why your comments are so much appreciated. The piece is being reworked, both as a first-person non-fiction piece, and as I get time a fiction short story based around the incident.

Hi chaps,

See what fun we have when we play with words together.

Happy Christmas

Dv

A happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night from Belize, the Jewel of the Caribbean and Paradise in Central America - the best of two worlds.