"Killing Me" ; Grunge/ hard rock - Page 2 - Writers Forum

T.W. North · 04-13-2008, 12:45 AM

No, its because the people who love them don't actually go out and look for music, they hear whatevers on the radio, buy it and thats it. I mean, don't get me wrong, thats how I started with music (well, really with bands like R.E.M. who are excellent and U2...who've been doing the same thing for years), so I do LIKE alot of cliche, generic stuff, but I can never love it. Never. I can listen to it for entertainment, but not because its deep or particularly good.

Mystery · 04-13-2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian_Rucci

Ahh I see, yet still isn't that why people write lyrics? To express their feelings? Also, poetry. Also, that's what many people listen to music for so they can relate to a song. Just putting it out there, I understand what you mean but most songs are written about feelings and events in some ones lives.

You've never heard a song about corporate bullshit?
Paranoia?
Agoraphobia?

If not you are listening to all the wrong types of music, stop listening to songs simply because you can relate to them without listening to them.

Like I said earlier, emotional expression is fine, but do it in a few way, thats the point of poetry and lyricism, I mean look at the Nymph's Reply for instance by Walter Raleigh if I recall correctly(I'm not a big poetry buff), great way to show the conflict of love, despair of the world, and denial. It's a masterpiece but it's not showing anything new, and even in todays market where I see similar messages a lot, it still shines out as better.

Damian_Rucci · 04-13-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.W. North

No, its because the people who love them don't actually go out and look for music, they hear whatevers on the radio, buy it and thats it. I mean, don't get me wrong, thats how I started with music (well, really with bands like R.E.M. who are excellent and U2...who've been doing the same thing for years), so I do LIKE alot of cliche, generic stuff, but I can never love it. Never. I can listen to it for entertainment, but not because its deep or particularly good.

Thats where I agree with you! Most people in my school just listen to whats ever on the radio but never good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery

You've never heard a song about corporate bullshit?
Paranoia?
Agoraphobia?

If not you are listening to all the wrong types of music, stop listening to songs simply because you can relate to them without listening to them.

Like I said earlier, emotional expression is fine, but do it in a few way, thats the point of poetry and lyricism, I mean look at the Nymph's Reply for instance by Walter Raleigh if I recall correctly(I'm not a big poetry buff), great way to show the conflict of love, despair of the world, and denial. It's a masterpiece but it's not showing anything new, and even in todays market where I see similar messages a lot, it still shines out as better.

Ahh I see. Thanks for the detailed comment to explain

T.W. North · 04-13-2008, 08:43 PM

Although i have to disagree with Mystery about not listening to songs you relate to...thats ridiculous. The whole point in music is to go through the emotions, not to think 'ah yes, this is quite clever' and be detached. Which most 'masterpieces' tend to be.

Mystery · 04-15-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.W. North

Although i have to disagree with Mystery about not listening to songs you relate to...thats ridiculous. The whole point in music is to go through the emotions, not to think 'ah yes, this is quite clever' and be detached. Which most 'masterpieces' tend to be.

Theres a colossal difference between listening to music because you can relate to it, and feeding off of music because it's easy to relate to, and wost of all, only listening to music as something you can relate to.

Music is music, not words, you relate with words, not music.

That's why I'm telling you, you're listening to all the wrong types of music, the ones that sell by being relatable as opposed to good(you'd be surprised how easily your opinion of something is skewered by words).

It's not the case with everything, just almost everything.

T.W. North · 04-15-2008, 10:20 PM

...But with music, the whole enjoyment factor is either being able to relate to it, or getting a high off it. Music is all about the emotions. Music because it's 'good' is shit. You get nothing from it. Oooh, yeah, it was hard to arrange, ooh it takes talent. So what? If it gives you nothing, it is nothing.

Mystery · 04-16-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.W. North

...But with music, the whole enjoyment factor is either being able to relate to it, or getting a high off it. Music is all about the emotions. Music because it's 'good' is shit. You get nothing from it. Oooh, yeah, it was hard to arrange, ooh it takes talent. So what? If it gives you nothing, it is nothing.

Wow, your failure of logic staggers me.
Music of high level = good music. Or haven't you heard of bach or mozart? What some people fail to understand is that technical skill more often that not DOES mean a fucking good composer, because they know the limits of their instruments and their music. Bach and Beethoven were fucking piano players man, and there reason there isn't an adjective behind piano is because its the best way to describe them, REAL players.

The whole enjoyment is music is to LISTEN to it, not to relate to it, stop confusing MUSIC with SONGS, they aren't the same thing. Are you that drugged that you can't enjoy great phrasing? A beautiful melodic line, an innovative progression, an unexpected chord that changes the feel of the music? Music is the art of expressing emotion with a sound other than words, saying its all about the emotions is mundane, but music isn't some kid screaming about how his life sucks, music isn't playing on peoples escapist fantasies to get them to listen, music isn't screaming profanity at everything teenagers dont like to get them to relate.

The art in music is to say it without words, thats why I often hate songs, because lyrics cheapen the musicians ability to transcribe emotion and make it something easy, thats why you have bands like slipknot being popular. Go find your favourite song without lyrics. Can you still listen to it all the way through on loop without it getting boring 3 minutes in?

T.W. North · 04-16-2008, 11:43 PM

...

Half of the 'masterpieces' out there, I hate. I can't connect with them at all. I listen to a little music, not songs, and I can like it. But not art music. God no. Art music is good ideas, ruined by pretentiousness. If you can't connect to something, how the hell are you supposed to enjoy it? The whole thing with enjoyment is that it does SOMETHING to you. If you're distanced from something...you're not enjoying it. You're appreciating it. I appreciate art music, sure, but to hell with liking it.

Mystery · 04-17-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.W. North

...

Half of the 'masterpieces' out there, I hate. I can't connect with them at all. I listen to a little music, not songs, and I can like it. But not art music. God no. Art music is good ideas, ruined by pretentiousness. If you can't connect to something, how the hell are you supposed to enjoy it? The whole thing with enjoyment is that it does SOMETHING to you. If you're distanced from something...you're not enjoying it. You're appreciating it. I appreciate art music, sure, but to hell with liking it.

Uhm sir, if you don't like masterpieces, it's not the composers fault. The problem and the grace of music(and I mean instrumental music), is that it doesn't tell you how to enjoy it, or how to take it, thats why a lot of people don't have the capacity to like it or even understand it, its the exact opposite of what people nowadays like, music that shoves how you WILL enjoy and how you WILL take it down your throat.

And Protip, music, especially classical, is not permanent relation music, its pure emotion, for instance, if you aren't sad you can't appreciate something like the moonlight sonata.

Damian_Rucci · 04-17-2008, 02:00 PM

Excuse me, but can you two please take your argument to a different thread or private message? Thanks