Song - Candle Light - Writers Forum

thamior · 02-05-2008, 01:36 PM

I know... haven't written much in awhile. As always, leave one and I'll return the favor.

I see the rows of glowing candles,
lighting the world around them.
I watch them flow and I stand still,
as you pass before my eyes again.

I’ve heard your whispers from afar,
as I wander lost in the dimmest light.
Gone in the shadow of my heart,
yet, within me I see your candle shine.

Chorus:
I drip the wax on the table top,
tilt my candle to your lips.
I melt and nothing’s left to stop,
as I run between your fingertips.

Light shines on my tears of dimmed reflection,
darkness in my hands, calloused and worn.
It feels like your long and waning affection,
your fingers touched my cheeks-we’re born.

*chorus*

I see your smile in the darkness,
but it outshines the candle light.
I see you here and I must confess,
that you came when the time was right.

I thought that years would change this face,
and my eyes would break to age’s truth.
I thought I’d leave my best years to waste,
but now I see you coming through.

*chorus*

Guitar part: Free file hosting by Savefile.com

Note: F#5 > D5 > A5 > B5

Industrial · 02-05-2008, 05:22 PM

I think for the most part it flows well. I think it would also do very good with music. However, like you mentioned the last chorus line is a little awkward.

The structure is for the most part consistent though you could stand to do away with the run away lines.

One stanza really stands out to me, it's the last stanza before the last chorus.

Overall. Good job.

thamior · 02-05-2008, 05:46 PM

Run away lines are where the rough spots are. They say what I want them to say, I have to shorten them with the same meaning, obviously. But, at the moment, cannot find another phrasing.

Crash_Tomas · 02-05-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Chorus:
I melt like wax on the table top,
you’re so cool to the touch.
I melt and nothing’s left to stop,
as I run between your fingertips.

instead

Chorus:
I melt like wax on the table top,
you’re so cool to the touch.
I melt and nothing’s left to stop,
as I run between your thoughts.

kind of a slant rhyme...dunno if it makes sense with what you want to say.

but, yeah. a little rough, but I guess if you work it more, it'd make for a good song.

thamior · 02-05-2008, 09:13 PM

Thoughts isn't exactly what I want to get across, but I'm sure we'll think of something.
I'm trying to get a better visual of touch, hence the fingertips.

I see you still have my quote

T.W. North · 02-05-2008, 11:28 PM

The light shines on my tears of dimmed reflection,
darkness in my hands, calloused and worn.
It feels like your long forgotten affection,
your fingers touched on my cheeks and we were born.

That entire stanza/verse/whatever is both the best thing in the song and the only thing that is out of context. The rest of the song is incredibly simply worded, with bare description and more emotion. And then suddenly, WHAM, in the direct middle of the song you get four lines of amazing poetic wording.

Anyway, as for the rest of the song, well, it doesn't flow all the time and certainly isn't consistant from verse to verse, but I'm not sure about the style. I'd say acoustic, but I could be wrong.

And I actually think the last line of the chorus fits perfectly, its the second line that jumps out of place (and the first line that is dangerously bad). Actually, maybe I should go through this line by line:

Quote:

I see the rows of glowing candles, --intriguing start, doesn't really do much though
giving off their light to the world around them. --doesn't flow at all and has no matching line in later verses
I watch them flow and I stand still, --good line
as you pass before my eyes again. --again, good line

I’ve heard your whispers in the dark, --cliche, but works
as I wander lost in the dimmer light. --dimmer most certainly does NOT work
Gone in the shadow of my heart, --cliche and doesn't work so well
and yet, within me I see your candle shine. --good!

Chorus:
I melt like wax on the table top, --eww. worst line in the song. please don't melt
you’re so cool to the touch. ---cool to the touch? I don't understand that
I melt and nothing’s left to stop, --okay, you melting here is alright
as I run between your fingertips. --I like! different

The light shines on my tears of dimmed reflection, --okay, this whole verse is very nice, but doesn't fit
darkness in my hands, calloused and worn.
It feels like your long forgotten affection,
your fingers touched on my cheeks and we were born.

*chorus*

I see your smile in the darkness, --yawn, where HAVEN'T I heard that one before?
but it outshines the candle light. --I like that one though, nicely original and sweet
I see you here and I must confess,
I did not see it but you came just right. --all good until...came just right? wtf?

I thought that years would change this face, --very nice line
and my eyes would show their age true. --bad grammar does not work if it doesnt make sense
I thought I’d leave my best years to waste, --ooh, I looove this line
but now I see you coming through. --again, nice ending. doesn't need the chorus after it.

*chorus*

P.S. The song I'd like you to look at is Mind Overrun. ^^

thamior · 02-06-2008, 12:34 PM

Thanks T.W. I'll take plenty of that into consideration and post an rewrites when they occur. Though, among other things, I definitely don't agree with the last line of the chorus. I agree that it's nice, but unless I change the first 3 lines of the Chorus (which you don't seem to like anyway) it doesn't really fit.

thamior · 02-07-2008, 06:42 PM

Rewrite posted, guitar part added. (see link)

T.W. North · 02-07-2008, 11:52 PM

Aha, much better. All your changes work perfectly. =P I do hope you notice the sexual innuendo of the first two lines of the chorus. Not particularly romantic that one. However I still think the bridge doesn't belong. While bridges are meant to be different, that one doesn't really have anything to do with the song style wise.

And...I sense you're not the greatest composer are you? The guitar sounds really quite off. The lighter tones of guitar just sound weird to me and the whole thing is really quite bitsy.

Mystery · 02-08-2008, 09:41 AM

Now I know you don't like me, and this will probably raise hell because no matter how high my level is as a musician, people will always know better out of "opinion", but I have some advice for your song.

Firstly the lyrics.
The problem with your lyrics these days is no so much the cliche, because I don't see much anymore, you're also spreading your wings. The thing is you are spreading your wings but forgetting to fly. You sacrifice wording for imagery and flow.

A good example of this is the line that T.W took:

"The light shines on my tears of dimmed reflection,
darkness in my hands, calloused and worn.
It feels like your long forgotten affection,
your fingers touched on my cheeks and we were born."

The way I hear your music, you will have to stretch things out too far for it to sound good. You need to remember that while any words can be put to music, you need caliber to do it right and make it sound good. The stuff you'll have to play is high level.

Also, some words don't fit with your imagery, I.E Calloused or reflection. But I'm just nitpicking now.

Onto the music:
Practice with a metronome. The way you played gives what you played like a delayed 5/4 feeling, trying to be 5/4 but just not quite there. Also, you melody is faster than your chords(and I mean as in tempo, not value).

Also, I don't mean to offend you, but it's boring. The chord changes don't lead anywhere, and you make the pitfall of every new age musician, you don't embellish your chords with melody, just keep switching them(and while you can do this and make it sound good, you aren't at that level of theory). If you don't know how to do a chord chart ask a musician and learn, then transpose it. Learn 7th chords, half diminished chords, augmented, full dimishied etc so you can give your harmony an actual progression. I don't know if it's because I listen to jazz and classical(two opposite styles, jazz works on catching chord tensions and changes while classical music embelishes chords over many bars) but hearing things like that are boring. Learn how music is made and draw influence from it, either you chords or your melody will take you somewhere, and you need to learn how to guide them into and out of tension.

thamior · 02-08-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery

Firstly the lyrics.
The problem with your lyrics these days is no so much the cliche, because I don't see much anymore, you're also spreading your wings. The thing is you are spreading your wings but forgetting to fly. You sacrifice wording for imagery and flow.

Imagery and flow are everything in a poem or a lyric. Of course you want the diction to sustain itself, but if the images or flow are weak, there's no point in the lyric. Just means you have to try harder with every line to ensure that all three are put well. However, without specific attention, it's hard for me to know precisely what you're talking about. In the rewrite I addressed all three, so unless you have examples, I have nothing to go off of.

Quote:

A good example of this is the line that T.W took:

"The light shines on my tears of dimmed reflection,
darkness in my hands, calloused and worn.
It feels like your long forgotten affection,
your fingers touched on my cheeks and we were born."

The way I hear your music, you will have to stretch things out too far for it to sound good. You need to remember that while any words can be put to music, you need caliber to do it right and make it sound good. The stuff you'll have to play is high level.

That was the verse that T.W. liked. As far as stretching it out, I actually shortened it. If you'd seen the original lyric you might have puked and walked away

. Granted, the lines still aren't "short", but it's not always the point of the lyric to have "short" lines. The ones I have right now are ones that fit well with the flow I've designed for this piece. So, once again, I'm wondering what exactly about the length of the lines bothers you.

Quote:

Also, some words don't fit with your imagery, I.E Calloused or reflection. But I'm just nitpicking now.

Alright, how do they not fit? Calloused and reflection are certainly different images, but there are countless good poems and lyrics that have used contrasting images, unrelated images, and everything in between. I'm still left wondering what exactly has you bothered. You point out a lot of things, but decide to moreso lecture me on what you know I already know, and less on getting in depth about the examples you used.

Quote:

Onto the music:
Practice with a metronome. The way you played gives what you played like a delayed 5/4 feeling, trying to be 5/4 but just not quite there. Also, you melody is faster than your chords(and I mean as in tempo, not value).

You caught me there. I am a musician, I do know the theory, but I had no precise rhythm for the piece, and it would show to anyone who knows anything about music. I'm not too bothered by it since it was a spur of the moment idea, it needs refining, but so does the lyric, that's why they're here and not published somewhere.

Quote:

Also, I don't mean to offend you, but it's boring. The chord changes don't lead anywhere, and you make the pitfall of every new age musician, you don't embellish your chords with melody, just keep switching them(and while you can do this and make it sound good, you aren't at that level of theory). If you don't know how to do a chord chart ask a musician and learn, then transpose it. Learn 7th chords, half diminished chords, augmented, full dimishied etc so you can give your harmony an actual progression. I don't know if it's because I listen to jazz and classical(two opposite styles, jazz works on catching chord tensions and changes while classical music embelishes chords over many bars) but hearing things like that are boring. Learn how music is made and draw influence from it, either you chords or your melody will take you somewhere, and you need to learn how to guide them into and out of tension.

Eh, boring is subjective. But, yes, the lack of musical color could make it bland, which is why it's not supposed to be an instrumental. Its main purpose is to be a rhythm piece to back up the integral part of the song, the lyric. I'm a musician, and I know the value of good music, but, at this point in time, the lyric is far more important to me than the music is.

The chords themselves are, as I'm sure you could tell, just power chords. That's why it lacks color and is sort of dull and bland. I would certainly add more flavor to the piece if I could. Unfortunately, if I have any hope of playing it and singing it when it's done (despite my voice being god awful), I need to focus on simplifying the music so that I can focus on the words.

That being said, I thank you for your critique. Unfortunately, I'm not tempted to make further changes unless you go a bit more in depth with what you want to see. There is nothing glaringly wrong with the lyric to me as it stands right now, but, good, detailed critiques can help a person to see a flaw they otherwise would have missed.

Just remember, long does not always equal deep.

Edit: As a side note, since this has been my first lyric in awhile, I can't expect it to be the best reflection of my talent. I certainly like it (if I don't like a lyric no one will ever see it), though I saw some problems even when I put it up. People pointed them out, I contemplated them and made the changes I thought appropriate. I'm still willing to change it, as I won't claim it to be a perfect piece. But, I won't just change it at the whim of another, styles and subjective judgments vary. If there's a good reason that the internal validity of the lyric is flawed, then I will certainly strive to fix it.

There are a number of "cliches" in the lyric, but I think writing this helped break the ice blocking my mind. So, hopefully we'll see some more top notch stuff soon. I do think, however, that this piece also has some interesting and thoughtful images, and even places old images in a different light. But, of course, I'm biased. It is after all, my piece.

T.W. North · 02-08-2008, 06:20 PM

Actually Thiamor, I said I liked that verse but not in context with the song. It doesn't work and thats what Mystery was getting at (I think, otherwise I disagree, it does work, just not with that particular set of lyrics or music).

thamior · 02-09-2008, 08:10 AM

His point was that I sacrificed meaning for imagery and flow in the verse, he had nothing there about it not fitting with the lyric.

Mystery · 02-09-2008, 09:03 AM

MY whole point was that is doesn't integrate with the piece. That why I picked that verse and specific words. Contrasting imagery is fine, but you need to learn to read and hear what you say in your mind, you'll be able to tell when some things sound awkward. I can't explain it further than that it's an awkward piece of imagery, and while like you said, its okay to do it, its just like using dissonances in music, if they are too extreme it wont work.

thamior · 02-09-2008, 11:05 AM

Perhaps. The problem is, you don't know what I've done. I do hear them in my mind, and I almost always sing them out loud too, even if I don't like my voice. The basic premise is to test flow, and I've done that. There was nothing in that verse or that didn't flow alright after the rewrite. That's why I'm asking for specifics, because you refuse to point out what detracts from the flow, as of right now, I see nothing.