terrib

This is a question I asked that was posted on an agents blog. If you care to take a look you'll see my question made the agent quite pissed off. The 57 comments were a mixture between agreeing with me calling me 'sour grapes'. I was even accused of whining! Me, a whiner?

Just wanted to know what you all thought?

Click on the link below and then click on blog. Scroll down to Monday, May 12th. That's me!


BookEnds, LLC — A Literary Agency

Ungood

I have to agree with the guy responding.

What works for you might not work for me, what works for me, just won't work for you.

Writing (Beyond Grammar) is an art form, telling a story. Different people have different tastes, if everyone liked the same type of stuff every author would write the same way, but authors have their own style and pose that they use.

Authors know that there is always going to be someone that "Hates your book" that is just the way it is. No if's and's or but's about it, someone will hate your writing, just as there are those that will love it.

Just the nature of the beast.

But some authors can put out a piss poor book (IE: not up to their typical standard) from time to time, but that happens to everyone in the entertainment fields.

Ungood.

__________________

astralis

That was an interesting discussion. I agree with Ungood's response. Not everything that gets published is great. There's a lot of difference between telling a story and telling a story well-told.

It's rare that I read a book that is completely horrendous. I can count two books that I thought weren't worth the time to read the title. I gave one of these books to my girlfriend at the time, remarking how horrible it was, and she freaking loved it! I still have that book on my shelf after all these years and I'm going to give it another try. The fact that I somehow got it back and carried it around the world (literally) with me for over a decade is still a mystery.

Storytelling is very subjective and I think most readers don't require stories to knock them off their feet while having an epiphany about life all the time. So, at what point can the storytelling be so horrible where it cannot pass even the lightest critiques of genre fiction? The answer is simply up to the agent/editor/publisher. Some of the critique requests on this board contain writing I think is atrocious but when I come back later I find several critiques praising it for how great it is. It's all subjective, but that doesn't mean everyone's correct.

__________________
How to write a story

Ilasir Maroa

I left a fairly detailed reply that can be summed up as a "bad" book can still be an "enjoyable" book, the latter classification being the one necessary for publication once you get past obvious spelling and grammar problems.

__________________
My hopeful book:
Crap! Haven't posted it anywhere yet, darn!
"Only tyranny cloaks itself in shadows. The light of justice can not be hidden."
www.theoddvillepress.com

NaCl

terrib,

I read all those responses and I think I see the problem.

Please answer, yes or no. Have you stopped beating your kids yet? We all know, either answer casts guilt on the person who responds. Sometimes a question doesn't properly reflect the very subject of its query.

"How do "bad" books get published?"

The fundamental premise of your question is that "bad" books actually DO get published. That said, the operant issue is how one defines "bad". Therein lies the rub!

"Bad" is not a meaningful term in literary critique. It is an emotion, just like "good", "ugly" and all other value judgments. Personally, I find many classics to be a "bad" read. Same thing for virtually all romance novels and most solve-a-murder stories. Pure crap to me. My personal reaction to these books, however, does not make them a "bad" book. Nor would I consider books with typos, weak character development or cliché plots to be "bad" books. They are merely books that got published, despite their literary flaws.

I spent the past 15 years writing for tournament fishermen, many of whom do not possess the highest literary expectations. Okay, okay...so they're a bunch of lovable rednecks. My editor suggested I write down to my audience. I did not like the idea but who am I to question the "boss"? When I did, my readers loved it, often describing my articles as "straight talk". Yes..."ain't", double negatives and lots of monosyllable words graced my articles. My greatest challenge as a writer was to know my audience and write what THEY wanted.

If your question had asked why do some books get published, despite breaking major literary "rules", then I would expect lots of constructive answers such as...reflects the expectations of the intended market; well established author insists on editing control; big name behind the book - for example...Hillary Clinton, "It Takes a Village to Raise a Child" - it's going to sell millions even if it is printed on toilet paper; or, minimal editing because a publisher had a small budget for a first-time author and was just "throwing the book up against the wall to see if it had legs."

But, when you ask a question based on an emotional assumption, you must expect emotion laden responses. I found about half the responses in that blog, reacted to your value judgement, rather than addressing the underlying question about quality of writing. Others, correctly addressed some of the reasons (often legitimate) why books occasionally reach books stores despite significant "literary" flaws.

Just my thoughts.

.....NaCl

lin

My general tendancy is to ignore "all the crap books and films out there" kind of discussion. One person's bad is another person's joy. Also I don't go in for bad-mouthing other artist's work (much--and that means "works", not dickbrained forum comments)

That said, I thought the agent's reaction was defensive and lame. (You get that a LOT, a lot of agents are even more insecure and ego-driven than writers)

A big clue is the "don't say most books suck" thing. You, in fact, didn't say that. Just made the perfectly reasonable question that the vaunted "screening mechanism" seems a little faulty.

Agents are assholes, okay? As for all the people what agreed with her, they're kissing her ass hoping she'l remember it when they submit their crap to her. (Rotsa ruck)

__________________

Mermaid on the breakwater

Because somebody thinks they're good. Or good enough to sell.

__________________
Doors 2, an anthology: http://www.lulu.com/content/3522683

terrib

Hey, hey, hey! I see I'm in deep shit here too. Wow!
Okay let me TRY to explain.

I ordered 50 books from e-bay. I know, don't say anything. Well, out of the books I have read so far, ALL have been bad. That got me thinking. How in the hay did these books get published?

And no, I have to disagree, it's not about taste. I have read books that were not in my "norm," to read but they were well written. They had a plot that connected. The characters were fine. These books on the other hand were BAD!

Yes, half were best sellers. Even before this, I've bought bad books. It just made me wonder, that's all.

But, that just goes to show, writers write for an audience of one----themselves.

I appreciate all the ones above that took the time to read what I wrote. And no, NaCi, not any more. I've learned from my mistakes but thanks for bringing that to my attention. That also goes to show you what you say can and will come back to haunt you.

lin

My question is: how the hell can you order fifty books you don't like off eBay?

I almost NEVER bring home books I don't like.

__________________

terrib

They looked interesting. They sounded interesting and what can I say, Lin.

Ever went to a movie and it sucked?

lin

Not much actually. ; I like books and I like movies.

Even when I was a paid movie reviewer and had no choice in the films I say, I VERY SELDOM saw a flick that wasn't worth the time to sit through.

But basically, I guess I've just sort of learned how to get a feel for books and films before putting my money down.

__________________

terrib

Can I ever have the last word, lin?

NaCl

Your Texas is showing! LOL!

terrib

NaCi, I can take you digging into my past(thank God you didn't see my thread on, What's Up With The "N" Word), but don't curse me like that sweetie.....I am NOT a Texan!

You must be an attorney to dig up dirt like that on me, eh?

lin

Sure

__________________