HarryG

For example, if the protagonist is:


A concentration camp guard?


A Pedophile?


A suicide bomber?


A pornographer?


A serial killer?


An incestuous parent or sibling?


A violent career criminal?




My own inclination is to say that none of those should be banned, per se.

buyjupiter03

Can you clarify? Do you mean in general? Do you mean here? Do you mean in a short story collection?

I can think of several examples of really effed up people/situations which were used to good effect, and it's called "art" (whether it is theatre/film/book/etc).

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JoannaMac

It really depends. If your story condones furthering Facism, pedophilia etc, then yes, it should be banned. That kind of material already is banned. It's illegal all around the world to be a Nazi or a pedophile.

However banning or censoring a story just because it deals with the subject matter isn't right. Americans on the surface are completely against porn and if a politician is even associated with the merest whiff of it, then his/her political life is over (I live in the Ukraine where politicians can serve time for rape and still be president). America is where a majority of the world's porn comes from, which goes to prove that censorship is ineffective. As soon as you suppress something, it proliferates and often becomes perverted.

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seigfried007

No--not by subject matter or POV alone. I think it's a high mark to be able to write something with a POV like those you mentioned and sitll come out with a rational, understandable story--and even higher to make a POV like that appear sympathetic.

Of course, I've written rapists, murderers, technically bestiality (that was completely off-camera and makes more sense than it sounds like it should but it's still nasty). I was once told that I could write a cannibalistic pedophile and still have a wrenching, pro-POV story... what's worse is that I tried and could've done it.

*edit* I finished reading your list and came to the conclusion that I've written ALL of those except suicide-bomber.

Incestuous parent.... Ha! kinda-sorta did that in a Difference of Six Degrees--and it didn't get banned either

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Sam Winchester

Never. We can add a load more things to your list, Harry. If we ban them all, books would all be the same. There would be nothing new or unique.

I can't understand people's desire to ban everything in the friggin' world. As if that's going to make it better. In case you didn't know, there was violence, wars, killing, pilage, rape, and a shitload more all throughout history, long before books, movies, and games ever existed. It is part of human nature.

Disclaimer:

The "you" refers to no one.

Sam

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Zyphial

Despite how much I might hate some of the things people put down to text (the Nazi garbage is a good example), I feel that nothing should be outright banned. I grew up constantly told I had a freedom of expression and I've come to love and treasure it. Subsequently, I can't tell someone else they don't have that freedom without being a complete hypocrite. I can choose not to read, buy, or have anything to do with the creators of that stuff, however.

BOURBON

Absolutely not. Quite apart from the usual censorship debate...some of the most fascinating fiction comes from writers who write stories about those people society finds unacceptable. Investigating what makes a dysfunctional person tick throws a big light on humanity. Evil-doers and the terminally fucked in the head are still part of what we collectively are...so we can't just throw them out of the golf-club or sweep them under the carpet if we want to fully understand our species.

Further to the censorship debate: I do not believe in censorship, with the exception of self-censorship. If a writer chooses, upon consideration, to withdraw their work - I think we should allow them to do that with dignity. The most well-known example of this is Kubrick/Clockwork Orange.

BB

JosephB

Only Harry Potter, because it promotes devil worship.

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BOURBON

Flipping heck, Sam. You getting legal to check your posts before they go out now?
B

HarryG

Certain subjects, because they are horrific and recent, can hardly be written about, for a mass audience at least.


An account of a German soldier's heroism on the Eastern Front, will fail if there is even a mention of the holocaust. Similarly, the mass rape of German women and children by Russian soldiers in east Germany can't compare with pictures from Auschwitz.


Lolita was banned for many years, before being made into a famous film, with the 'victim's' age being adjusted by the film makers to hide the pedophile aspect.


Incestuous sex has long been written about, and even glamourised, but the Fritzl case in Austria has caused revulsion everywhere.


Even more controversially, what about all those countries where people were dancing in the street after 9/11? I can't refer to any, but there must already be books out there to glamourise suicide bombings.


And violent career criminals? They're two-a-penny. The Kray twins have made fortunes from bragging about their killings and torture. I've even met a man called Buller Ward, who was cut from ear to ear by the twins, and both he, and his assailants have written and bragged about it (and made money from their stories).


I think that the main reason these stories shouldn't be banned is because they draw attention to what is going on in the world right now, right this minute, all around us, and to bury our heads in the sand is futile. And, in context, they're a better read than a speech by Obama.

Sam Winchester

It's amazing what you have to do to keep people from getting defensive, Bourbon.

Sam.

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Non Serviam

Stop the thread. Joseph B has won.

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Sunny Rabbiera

Heheh, actually I hate Harry Potter because I dislike JK Rowling

PageOfCups

I'm still trying to figure out why pornographer is on that list. There's nothing wrong with the career if that's what you want to do. As for the others I think they could be very interesting characters and a book with people like that in the lead would most likely make the reader squirm.

seigfried007

Yup, Page. They are interesting, and they can make a reader squirm.

I've never actually written the guy scripting porn, but I have two pornstars in my head and have written one of them. One did kiddie porn and both had some major childhood issues (both male). The other had DID (multiple personalities) and that shocked me when I realized it because, at first, I'd taken him for only bipolar. Was rather unhappy to find him more crazy than I'd thought, but he's shaped up to be one of the more interesting and now one of my more stable characters (which is hella odd for me, but I love it)

That one also fits rapist, murderer, drug addict and pedophile (one of his alters was, and thankfully for everyone, that alter was horrified of the body when it came out and thus, never came out). Of course, him having DID and some of those alters being gay or bi would have made a lot of people squeamish too. He's one of the few characters only introduced to a handful of trusted friends because so many people looked at me like I was crazy for having him. After all, why would anyone want a man named Eighteen Inches in their head anyway?

That said, he was and is interesting to write, and I've learned a lot about people in general from fiddling with characters who were a bit off the beaten track, so to speak.

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