comma127

I wasn't running them down. I pointed out what I didnt like about the vamp books I've read so far and asked people to tell me some that were different.
Something that you failed to adress

So instead of bitching about what itches you, you might as well mention some good books.

__________________
Will I live, will I die, will I bleed for this fantasy in my dreams? Through your eyes, tell me, do you see me kill to make it reality?

What is it that we all fear? Reflections in the mirror. We can't escape fate, the end is getting nearer.

seigfried007

Pah!

If they're incapable of being sexy it's only because you don't have the imagination enough to write them well.

I've got plenty of sexy demons and maybe even a few werewolves (definitely a few studly were-tigers). I'vre sldo got vampires who I would never describe as 'sexy'.

I've actually written some similar stories (and not even as parodies).

However, I think the ideas of werewolves, demons and vampires are fascinating through the ages for a reason and that when those reasons are plumbed, a good writer with a lot of imagination can still find worthy, meaningful (and even scary or sexy) stories.

Key there being, what makes these ideas worthwhile or frightening? If the writer doesn't think of anything beyond "Well, vampires suck blood and live a long time and always look young so they're sexy" or "werewolves can bite you/demons are eeevil, so they're scary" s/he is never going to write anything more interesting than the typical gutter trash so prevalent in fiction.

__________________
The Oddville Press
SEND US YOUR STUFF NOW!

comma127

I don't write vamp fiction

when you publish one tell me so i can read it

__________________
Will I live, will I die, will I bleed for this fantasy in my dreams? Through your eyes, tell me, do you see me kill to make it reality?

What is it that we all fear? Reflections in the mirror. We can't escape fate, the end is getting nearer.

moderan

By all means. Feel free to pm when it's up somewhere

LOL...Writerdude, I did mention Anne Rice, in the avoidance category.

__________________

moderan

Well, thank you, Sir T., but let's remember that they're just opinions.
I just don't see some quasizombie, smelling of the grave, with fresh dirt coming from his/her clothes in clumps, breath like last week's pork roast pan still sitting on the stovetop, festooned with maggots, as sexy. Pathetic, maybe, scary in the right hands.
Elves, well, they're quite the opposite. Sort of like idealized immortal flower-children, all ethereal unless you piss em off, whereupon they put down the hashpipe, stop sticking flowers in rifle barrels, and turn into so many Elrics.

__________________

seigfried007

Well, Moderan, when you put it that way (with the maggots and schtuff), of course it's hard for them to be sexy However, as of late in Western mythology, vampires tend to be nothing more than immortal bloodsuckers with an intolerance for sunlight and Italian food.

Here I think is the perfect place to mention that not all mythologies have vampires as eternally young, etc. It's also a nice place to say "As the writer, you can screw around with the common notion of 'What is a vampire/werewolf/what-have-you?'"

Now that you mention it, Sir Twilight and Moderan, I think modern vampires are little more than bloodsucking big-toothed Elves with super powers and allergies. While those things could be seen as significant differences, they come off as superficial in most fiction. It's as if vampires are the darker urban version of Elves. I say that mostly because they seem to occupy the same places in barely different plotlines. Notably, the 'sexy' love interest who's intriguing moslty because he's gorgeous, long-lived/eternally young and not entirely human. I've even seen vamps with pointy ears...

__________________
The Oddville Press
SEND US YOUR STUFF NOW!

seigfried007

Btw, I think a definition of 'sexy' is in order too. I like where Moderan was going with his, but it seems silly to mention the term unless everyone knows what definition's being used (because most people associate 'sexy' and 'erotic' with 'titillating').

As for comma's comments, the 'lack of imagination' line was pointed at the notion that any one kind of character cannot be something. It's not specific to vampires (which wasn't what was being talked about anyway, but rather demons and werewolves). I simply hate it when writers try to box everything from what settings are allowed to what charaters have to be like into little categories. Just because one person can't look at a demon in more than way does not mean that a demon cannot be diferent from that miniscule stereotype.

As to me writing such a piece, I don't write 'sexy' fiction so even if I have a few characters who are more than capable of turning on the charm, I don't generally write them at their most seductive (it tends to portray them in a bad light or make them seem superficial--esp in short fiction). Beyond that, I don't wish those characters to be treated like "the sexy love interest".

In long fiction, I have no doubt that a character of such a nature could be fully explored and seen as 'sexy' but not stereotypically or in only the most base 'titillating' form. I've already written a character who fits both 'demon' and 'sexy' in long fiction but that's a long story.

__________________
The Oddville Press
SEND US YOUR STUFF NOW!

KangTheMad

I think this should be one of the things that you should not post on the internet...Your crimes.

__________________
Click on my eggs, so I can have an evil-I mean good Draconian army!

moderan

Yeah....it's that lack of sense of history that gets me. Modern "vampires" are not informed by what has been written before, and the writers of such all too obviously have never heard of or researched the wampyr or vorwalaka. They're just using the name as a convenient label for a generic superhuman or parahuman. Like the mass of "Goths" out there that have never heard of Walpole, they have no idea of what they're actually portraying, and appeal to others who are similarly ignorant. Hence the pitch to YA, since that's the audience segment that knows that everything that went before is irrelevant. It's reasonably clever as a marketing ploy, but laughable when viewed in the cold light of day.
The vorwalaka were not eternally young...everything since Lugosi is tainted by his Valentinoesque approach, hence the "sexy" (as in exotic) idealism. They were virtually immortal...that much is true.
So much of this is just the process of demystification...and so much of this vampire/elf/werewolf stuff on the market is just wish-fulfillment and power-fantasies. Some emo going "ooo, if I were immortal and eternally young and handsome/pretty, I could get anyone I wanted, and they'd love me too".
Sexy is, say, Lauren Bacall's come-hither glance to Bogie, not Mariah Carey's undulating cleavage. One has an element of mystery and promise, the other has, well, a good night out. No mystery...no element of suspense. Just kiddie porn.
Exoticism can be sexy too...again relying on the mysterious elements. But there needs to be some lead-in, some seduction, some promise, instead of "come and do me right now". That part comes later

__________________

seigfried007

Oo, so much truth in one post, moderan

Well, at least we agree on 'sexy'--that the mysterious element weighs more than sheer comeliness and hip-thrusting. I think charisma is what does it--the sheer force of personality and that 'playing with fire' expectation where things are earned or taken but always respected rather than cheaply tossed aside by morning.

Of course, I considered Lugosi to have the 'playing with fire' attribute. I'd never want to be Dracula, but he was certainly mysterious enough to suck you right in (no pun intended).

to the adolescent rant, all I could think was "Ooo burn."

__________________
The Oddville Press
SEND US YOUR STUFF NOW!

MiloDaePesdan

Hang on. Italian food? Where did that come from?

Not that I'm complaining. I'm all for strangling vampires with pasta.

__________________

Damien.

Ug. I'm not going to mention the Twilight series.

I do like Anne Rice, though. She doesn't bore me in the least.

__________________

moderan

LOL...but we're grownups! Definitely not the target audience. Personal charisma no doubt has a lot to do with the sexiness. Lugosi wouldn't do it for me but then I'm male and hetero. I'm also of eastern European heritage, and grok vorwalaka and Baba Yaga.
Also, I have four grown children, several just past their adolescence. I've spent considerable time explaining these matters. The two youngest wear black as protective coloration and know about Prague and Munchen as examples of Gothic architecture, and have read the Monk and the Castle of Otranto. They prefer Bailey to Jennifer, if you get my drift here.
Recognizing that teen culture has those attributes listed in the above rant, and marketing to them, is all well and good. But I'd prefer to see some injection of reality, at least in having the scholarship to recognize one's literary precedents and in having the ability to use that knowledge to inform one's text. I had to read all of that vampy nonsense and explain why it was sloppy writing and a poor excuse for literature. The first part was harder
Now, where the hell was I? Oh yes...sexy. I like sexy. The shades of hidden meaning in the batting of eyes, the extra fillip to a walk, the easy banter of people who are interested and not in a hurry, the meaning of that extra glass of wine when the kids are out...them are sexy. Casual profanity, habitual undress, that's vulgarity. Desensitizing. Give me the sensual anyday. Wear maybe just a little perfume behind an ear or way down in your cleavage (or even better, a dab of scented spice, mmmmm), so I can't smell it until I'm right there. That's sexy. Spraying eau de ho on with a fire extinguisher, that's profane.
But I don't think people understand those things until they're more experienced.

__________________

moderan

Garlic! wampyr hate garlic! They'd get their mouths stuffed full of fresh bulbs before their heads got cut off.

__________________

Sir Twilight

You see, Moderan, I had to put that in my signature. There's no way I'd find that "SEXY" (hell, we should make a thread on the definition of sexy)...

I for one am NOT a fan of the Twilight series... too much teenage angst there

__________________