Ilasir Maroa

I think the issue is not so much that a new language enriches your writing, but that the undertsanding of language that learning a new one provides enriches your writing. But you could do a more serious study of english and get most if not all of the same effects.



Latinate, not Latin. Only about 25% of english lexemes are actually Germanic(coming to us through anglo-saxon); a far greater majority are french and latinate.

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HarryG

I think that some countries produce better writers in English, than England does, and India and Ireland come to mind, and dare I say it, America?


My own view to explain that phenomenon is that in the case of India, their own language is flowing and thoughtful, without our native harshness.


Roughly the same applies to Ireland, with a romantic tinge caused by a long fights against invaders, and that wild scenery.


And America? The world's melting pot? The land has always attracted dreamers, escapees from Europe, mainly, and dreamers often make good writers.


Finally, two of the six finalists for the Booker prize are writing in English, which, amazingly, is their second language.

winkash

As far as I am concerned, it is Ok to use Latin as an adjective and refer to Latin words/ terms/ inscriptions/ phrases etc.
I have not seen Latinate before and I would like you to tell me why in this particular case you say that it is Latinate, not Latin (whether there have been changes in usage and so on). Thanks.

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"All, all is theft, all is unceasing and rigorous competition in nature; the desire to make off with the substance of others is the foremost - the most legitimate - passion nature has bred into us and, without doubt, the most agreeable one."
Marquis de Sade

Ilasir Maroa

The majority of "latin" words used in english are "latinate", as in, derived from latin roots, rather than being entirely Latin themselves, although the words usage allows for anything of, dreived from, or suggestive of Latin. I wasn't actually meaning to correct your use, but to clarify an earlier comment. Lin brought up "Latinate" words in english, and you replied that "Latin" words are used mostly in formal situations. Lin used "Latin" the second time, but it seemed clear to me that he meant "Latinate".

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My hopeful book:
Crap! Haven't posted it anywhere yet, darn!
"Only tyranny cloaks itself in shadows. The light of justice can not be hidden."
www.theoddvillepress.com

winkash

So, English words with Latin roots, such as domicile, fornicate and urinate, are Latinate?

Curriculum, quantum and solarium are Latin terms.

As for Lin's comments on the subject, I shouldn't take into account anything I think he might have implied. My answer was based on what he actually said, which seemed clear to me too.

__________________
"All, all is theft, all is unceasing and rigorous competition in nature; the desire to make off with the substance of others is the foremost - the most legitimate - passion nature has bred into us and, without doubt, the most agreeable one."
Marquis de Sade

lin

No. They are English words. But they come from Latin. Many refer to that as "Latinate". But even if they didn't, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what it means.

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lin

Compared to ARABIC??? I don't think so.

But I've always laughed at Haiku purists, who seem to think a syllable of English is in some way equivalent to a Japanese character.

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For me with Squalor

I'm bilingual, I'm half American half Hungarian, I've spoken both since birth, and lived in a variety of countries growing up, I can't tell you guys in all honesty that it helps in my writing. One thing I am positive it helps a lot in, is the learning of another foreign language, it has a much bigger impact on that. There are some phrases in Hungarian that mean so much they can only be translated into English with a number of words. I can translate from Hungarian to English very well, the opposite for me is a lot harder because of the complexity of the written Hungarian form, English has a lot more synonyms that most languages and most of its words are not used in today's speech/writing. Only thing I can say for certain is that it definitely does not hurt to be bilingual when writing, but I can't say that it actually helps the individual be a better writer. It will get you thinking about how to express things that don't exist in the given language and this will push you creatively a bit yes. But for that you have to be thinking about something in another language when you write, and for me when I'm reading and writing in English, English is the only vocabulary I'm concerned with.

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winkash

FOR ME:

Quote:

. It will get you thinking about how to express things that don't exist in the given language and this will push you creatively a bit yes.

I think that it's difficult -though not impossible- to convey a meaning your target reader is not familiar with. Let's take, for instance, geographical situation and how it conditions the way we perceive reality, which obviously reflects in our language. This ranges from animal and plants species, topography, water availability to climate, politics, ethnicity, among others. In my personal case and letting aside language differences, I find it very difficult to understand Brazilian idiosyncrasy, just to mention one.

An interesting case are proverbs and sayings, since equivalents in meaning between two given languages may or may not be expressed in similar terms.

But I think that even within the same culture an among native speakers of the same language there are meanings which are difficlut to convey.

Let's take a proverb for example:

There is no one worse shod than the shoemaker's wife.

Surely younger western people understand what a shoemaker is, but they are not acquainted at all with its reality.

So, if you have to convey this proverb's meaning, you will have to find out an equivalent in your target readers' reality which help them understand the idea it implies, while taking into account the context where it is stated. This is why I can't give you an example right now, I lack a context.
Anyway, I think that it is a pleasant challenge that ultimately favours communication.

LIN:

Quote:

Latin terms

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin Absolutely untrue. They are so much a part of your speech that you aren't even aware of it.

Now, Latin terms is the subject of my statement, while They is the subject of a statement of yours that appears just below mine, which, as far as I am concerned, indicates that you are giving your point of view about it.

In other words, in this particular case, Latin terms (adjective + noun) = They (personal pronoun). Thus, they –or we- refer to the same reality, that is, terms from Latin language, such as curriculum.

However, you state:
latin terms (urinate, fornicate, domicile)

And then you state:
No. They are English words. But they come from Latin. Many refer to that as "Latinate".

While we have learned that:

Latinate=English words with Latin roots=English words that come from Latin.

Conclusion:
Latin terms: domicilium, fornicare, urina
Latin roots: domicil – fornix – urin
Latinate: domicilie, fornicate, urinate
Three different terms to refer to three different meanings.

So, according to the above and with the sole intention of making a contribution worthy of our fellow writers, it is accurate to affirm that Latin terms are used mostly in formal, scientific and technical language in general.
Thank you for your attention.

__________________
"All, all is theft, all is unceasing and rigorous competition in nature; the desire to make off with the substance of others is the foremost - the most legitimate - passion nature has bred into us and, without doubt, the most agreeable one."
Marquis de Sade

lin

What a little kidder you are.

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lin

domicilium, fornicare, urina LATIN WORDS

domicilie, fornicate, urinate ENGLISH WORDS

If confusion persists, consult a dictionary.

__________________

winkash

Yeah, uncle Lin. You know me well.

__________________
"All, all is theft, all is unceasing and rigorous competition in nature; the desire to make off with the substance of others is the foremost - the most legitimate - passion nature has bred into us and, without doubt, the most agreeable one."
Marquis de Sade

JoannaMac

Malone, I don't think you give English enough credit. It's an incredibly subtle language. The size of our vocab will attest to that, it's just that a majority of us don't use even half of it. There has been even more 'dumbing down' in recent years where anyone caught using 'big words' is immediately put down as being elitist and wanky.

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wacker

Personally speaking I think that people who are bi-lingual have a slight edge on ourselves who only can relate in English. This is because they have a better understanding of that foreign language and can show the emotion better than any of us who only know our native language.

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Ilasir Maroa

Show what emotion? Don't mistake "language" for "culture". If they have a different cultural perspective on emotion, then maybe you have an argument, but we're talking about writing in English, not bilingually, as far as I can see from Malone's statements. So it's not the word in the other language that matters, but the concept--if they can convey that concept in english.

__________________
My hopeful book:
Crap! Haven't posted it anywhere yet, darn!
"Only tyranny cloaks itself in shadows. The light of justice can not be hidden."
www.theoddvillepress.com