HarryG

My own belief is that writers are philosophers.


It doesn't matter whether we write children's stories, short stories, poetry, adult fiction, romance, horror stories, fantasy, or whatever; our stories contain our beliefs, whether we like it or not.


Similarly, I believe that only an amount of writing can be learned, but our style, our voice, is unique and can't be taught. At some stage, possibly near to the age of adulthood, we will know roughly what our philosophy is going to be for the rest of our lives. We will know roughly what our sexuality is going to be, as well as our politics, and our prejudices.


All of that will spill over into our writing, no matter what we are writing about.


Then we present our masterpieces to the world, and if a large enough chunk of the world likes what we have philosophized about, we are successful writers. There will also be a large chunk that we can never reach – they don't agree with our philosophy.


What do you think?

JosephB

I don't have one philosophy. My philosophies and ideas change as my life circumstances change, as I form new relationships and learn new things. Life would be a drag otherwise.

I have certain values that remain more or less constant, but even some beliefs that I once considered sacrosanct have come into question or have been modified by life experience.

My politics have changed since young adulthood and may change again, for all I know.

My sexual preferences were apparent to me at a young age, I'd say by 7-8. And certainly by puberty, there was no doubt. I realize this isn't the case for everyone.

I strive to overcome my prejudices and it would be a shame if it were otherwise. But being human, I will no doubt form new ones.

I hope my writing is published, and I hope it has a wide audience. I'm working hard toward that end. My writing has little to do with any single philosophy, although I would say there are somewhat consistent themes and ideas present in my writing. Some of my values and personal believes may be reflected by a certain character or events, but I'd consider it a shortcoming and a limitation if my writing was constrained by a single philosophy.

In short, and respectfully, I don't really agree with much of what you've said. I've had a little time to kill while I wait for my wife's train, otherwise, I usually don't indulge in this kind of navel-gazing.

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"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
-- Albert Einstein

"I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."
-- Flannery O'Connor

Straylight

Interesting conversation-starter, but as someone who holds a specific veneration for philosophy, I have to disagree to some extent.

Yes, a writer has (knowingly or unknowingly) a philosophy which will manifest itself onto his work. The same can be said of computer programmers, plumbers, and really anyone. You can judge a lot about a persons way of looking at and interacting with the world (ie: his philosophy) by looking at his work with a knowing eye.

That said, to be an actual Philosopher requires that one spends quite a bit of time pondering the Mysteries. Existence, consciousness, object/subject, etc. You can not do so and still have a philosophy (the cornerstone of my philosophy is that everyone has one, but a lot of people just don't put any thought into theirs, and so most people have pretty half-baked, 3/4 subconscious philosophies), but you're not a Philosopher.

I wouldn't even venture to say that good writing must come from a place of concious philosophizing. Atlas Shrugged is a work of philosophy, not straight literature, and that's certainly not everyone's cup of tea. You can write well from a perspective of philosophy, but doing so is incidental, not causal.

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"Every man builds his world in his own image. He has the power to choose, but no power to escape the necessity of choice."
-Ayn Rand

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it. "-Voltaire

lilacstarflower

I think writers are dreamers - in the good way. Writers are imaginative, creative and spiritual

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lin

Well, having seen some of your half-assed, unsupported beliefs, I'd be the last to try to dissuade from this or any other delusion. But perhaps you can shed some light on the philosophical underlayment of writing like:

Octopussy

Dick and Jane

Black Beauty

The Hardy Boys

Iceberg Slim

Little Anal Annie

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Matthatter

As it is with any group of people (unless, of course, the group is "great thinkers" or something like that), the majority don't think rationally. The case is the same for people who write (to the point they call themselves writers).

Were the great writers philosophers? Depends on what you think is great, but assuming it doesn't have to do with sales, then yes, one might say they were philosphers, this is a bit more acceptable. But is every self-proclaimed "writer" at the same level? Absolutely not.

It's nothing special to think of wierd, or seemingly "deep" thoughts. Anyone can say why, or ask questions, or make proposals ("What if the world was actually just a jellyfish, and every continent was its tentacles, and we are all like its stingers, harming everything we come in contact with, WOAH"), it's much different to actually break through the layers and layers of cultural conditioning through one's own reasoned thinking.

I think a mind with a history of careful philosophy starts doubting most of its "understanding" of the world, and becomes humbled by its ignorance. Most self-proclaimed writers, as I've seen it, are the opposite. Above-average intelligence, sure, pretty smart, yeah, but way too arrogant, egocentric and delusional for their own good. These qualities might be healthy, to complete a book (devoid of any significant information), but it isn't the state of a true thinker.

JosephB

You've got me pegged!

At the risk of sounding philistine, philosophy doesn't interest me much, except where it applies political ideas -- Locke, for example.

__________________
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
-- Albert Einstein

"I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."
-- Flannery O'Connor

Kast13

"We are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher."

"I am not a philosopher."

Alex Kostin

I agree with HarryG. Writers are philosophers (including me). Sometimes thay don't even know that. They don't know that their writing might bring birth to a new philosophical idea!

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Aliens exist. Look in the mirror!(I saw two of 'em today).They looked just like me.

JosephB

Yes, but this part of the OP is just way off base. "For the rest of our lives?" Pretty sad, I'd say, if that were true. And I fail to see how sexuality enters into it.

__________________
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
-- Albert Einstein

"I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."
-- Flannery O'Connor

RomanticRose

I just tell stories. The theme, underlying philosophy, meta-message or whatever, I leave for the reader to determine.

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CodeRed

Personally, I think that to suggest the thoughts and ideas of a writer carry any real philosophical merit, based purely on the fact that they are a writer, seems like it comes from the same sort of romantic ideal that would have all writers living the life of Paul Gauguin. I think that all it really is (one would hope), is that said thoughts and ideas are at least well formulated and expressed - subsequent philosophical evaluation is in the hands of the readers, and often seem to be quite apart from the intent of the writer.

I view it more that I document - whether it can be said that I document truth, philosophy or whatever is debatable; and if such a debate was to take place, I think I'd remove myself from it entirely.

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All my best thoughts were stolen by the ancients. Ralph Waldo Emerson

BOURBON

I do not agree that all writers are philosophers in the true sense. Because someone is a good tale-teller it would be wrong for them to suppose that their opinions on politics, existence, religion or society are of any more value than any other old sod down the pub. However, there are writers who are also philosophers in the true sense. They are rare and special.

Philosophy, in its purest sense, requires intellectual muscle as well as inspiration and an understanding of logic. Writers can be inspired and talented but may lack intellectual muscle. That doesn't make their work less important, it just makes their opinions less incisive.
My personal credo, my sexuality and my writing voice are ever evolving. I aspire to have no prejudices.

God help us all if we allow ourselves to be fossilised at the dawn of adulthood, when we are possibly at our very worst as human beings.

Every decision we make, every choice, every change, every encounter gives us new opportunties to evolve - and recognise that the most important creative act any human being can be involved in is the unfolding of his/her own existence.

JosephB

Those are my thoughts, but it sounds far more lovely when you say it. Really, I just wanted to say I thought it was crap.

I don't think my sexuality is evolving, really. My ideas about sex and it's place in my life have evolved, certainly. I'd be interested to hear what you mean, Bourbon.

__________________
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
-- Albert Einstein

"I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."
-- Flannery O'Connor

Matthatter

Well said, Bourbon. People love to indulge themselves in the idea that once reaching "adulthood" they know what's up and have nothing to strive for. They have reached the formal operations stage and have taken in the bulk of "common-sense" cultural ideas and values, they are in a comfortable (reduced conflict-ridden) spot and so think they have nothing more to learn.