08/18/08 - Cover Letter Scores - Page 3 - Writers Forum

Triquediqual · 09-11-2008, 04:42 PM

First of all, everhing I wrote in my bio was 100% true to those who thought I was lying.

Second, I know my grammar isn't 100% perfect and I'm liable to mistakes, as a judge in a competition, I can spot some and judge based on the best, so if I see a small mistake, this can differ two really good pieces.

Third, I liked the persons piece (to a certain extent) which I rated at 0/20 but I had no choice to because it didn't answer the question and no attempt seemed to have been made, if the question was "A Job Experience", I would have rated it 12/20. I stand by my comments 10%. I don't wish to discourage people from writing, sometimes, this heavy critique is needed to determine people to improve, which in the past, for the majority, it has indeed. I got the same when I started writing seriously, I took it, grew on it and vowed never to get a reaction like that again. I'd like for others to do the same even if they don't see it as constructive. Eg. Think of the Army, tough reactions, but it does make you want to improve ( assuming you want to be there ).

I don't claim to be a writing expert, very few on this site are and I wouldn't be as good as them nor will be for a few years or maybe never, I don't know. But based on my opinion, I gave marks as I felt were needed or not needed. I gave tiamat 18/20, so I do appreciate good pieces.

Hope that clears some things up.

Triq

Sam Winchester · 09-11-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

I gave tiamat 18/20, so I do appreciate good pieces.

Might want to go back and check that. You gave Tiamat 15.

Listen, no matter how bad a piece is, it doesn't deserve a zero. The lowest it deserves is a four or five, simply because the person took the time and effort to post. That's what I had a problem with. Also, this is a for-fun challenge, not a life or death scenario. You could have been more tactful, is all.

Chaeronia · 09-11-2008, 04:50 PM

As the esteemed writer of the zero-piece - the champion of nought no less! - I certainly wouldn't wish any scores to be revoked. This section of the site is clearly about opinion and any hack worth their font should be able to cope with a bit of sledging.

I knew my piece in particular was some way wide of the brief and thus expected low scores. But, as Hawke mentioned, LM is a device for experimentation and that is how I used it. I tried to portray the notion of a loanshark who knows little of the prerequisites for writing a covering letter, juxtaposing his simple outlook on his work (hence the short sentences and the speech-like narrative) with the formal task of writing a job application for a Debt Manager. Little comments such as “I like to be innovative and challenge existing systems” were thrown in to off-set the otherwise less structured tone of the letter (and for a bit of humour, which clearly failed miserably!), but of course I still understand my piece failed to meet the prompt.

I think Triq's comments were, in equal measure, unnecessary, badly worded, and just plain wrong, but that's his take, his view, and he's entitled to it. I'll certainly not be holding grudges over an experimental piece of flash fiction.

Roll on the next LM!

Brightside · 09-11-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raging_Hopeful

Hawke you're so nice and sweet

That's why we love you.

But sorry, I'll have to back up everyone else up on their opinions. This round came off as rude, vindictive, and not in the spirit of LM at all. Sure, it's an exercise but its not supposed to be an exercise in ego or flexing power over those you feel you are "superior" to in writing. Overall I'm glad I didn't enter and am shocked at the outcome of scores. Hardly any helpful critique at all and if you offer to be a judge, you should really be ready to take the time to judge fairly, rather than to be judgemental. I believe there is a big difference there, maybe not in definition, but in intention.

Congrats to the winners and hey, congrats to everyone who took the time to enter! It was a difficult prompt (I personally couldn't come up with anything to submit) and Loulou, as usual, I admire your spunk in the name of fairness.

Cheers,
Linz

Hey,

I agree that there were some harsh comments made in judging, but i think that's an unfair comment on labelling the judges. It was my first attempt, and at least i (and the other judges here) took time to judge. And, yes, some of us are not the best at critiquing work, but, again, at least we tried.

You've kinda put me off this actually, which is annoying as i really enjoy the LM

Sam Winchester · 09-11-2008, 05:10 PM

Brightside, I think Linz was talking about Triquediqual. I apologise if I'm wrong.

For the record, the judging is always slightly disparate. Not everyone has the same tastes, after all. However, I do believe that a score of zero is a lot more than disparate. It's rude, if I may say so.

Shawn · 09-11-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaeronia

Roll on the next LM!

I really enjoyed your piece. It certainly did not deserve a 0.

But I would like to drive home the point of checking grammar thoroughly. There's a lot of easy mistakes to throw off the score. You would have definitely been an 18 or 19 (in my books) had it been flawless.

What I really looked for in that 20 that I finally found in geisha's was that mature, developed writing style that brings the author's ideas into the piece in a way that is both sophisticated and easily understood. Complex characterization in the narrator also gives a good boost to the score.

But I can't speak for the other judges.

Congratulations to the contestants. Good job.

Brightside · 09-11-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

Brightside, I think Linz was talking about Triquediqual. I apologise if I'm wrong.

For the record, the judging is always slightly disparate. Not everyone has the same tastes, after all. However, I do believe that a score of zero is a lot more than disparate. It's rude, if I may say so.

I completey agree Sam, as i mentioned earlier. Raging's comments felt like it was pointed at all of us is all. This was a first attempt at judging for me, and found it hard to give all-round crit in a few words, so went on my first impressions.

I gave 8 or 9 for Chaeronia's story and i thought i was being REALLY harsh... (but for the theme, was about right) The story in no way deserved such a low score as 0. As Chaeronia has stated, they were going for a different take on it, and why not!? That's what LM is about, trying something out, enjoying the challenge, and seeing what others think, isn't it?

Anyway, I just hope Raging wasn't talking about everyone, is all. I really didn't intend on annoying anyone!!!!

Chris Miller · 09-11-2008, 07:34 PM

I didn't play this time, but it's interesting to read as an outsider. One thing I've noticed is that the judges who give the most wildly diverse scores, like a 0 here and a 15 there have the most sway over the outcome, and tend also to seem the least competent at critiquing. I think I'd be tempted to cut the highest and lowest score for each story and use the rest. Like they do in gymnastics, to keep the Russians from cheating. Not that it would've made much difference here. The cream floats to the top.

Wildcard · 09-12-2008, 09:28 AM

So how does this whole judging thing work? Is it like a random selection process? I say this because for a judge that claims he is critiquing for the betterment of the writer, Triq's grammar (as was seen twice with those posts up there) more or less, sucks.

So if his grammar sucks, how could he aptly critique anything? Let alone give someone zero?

I'd go ahead and throw in the old "not to sound harsh" line...but fuck it.

Lou pretty much hit the nail on the head. As did edropus. So I don't think I need to go down that road again.

My two cents.

SacredCircle · 09-12-2008, 11:03 AM

Let's put aside his poor grammar for a moment and look at Triq's post about why he did what he did. Does no one agree with him? I realize he went about it the wrong way, but he was trying to do the right thing. Maybe explaining to him how to critique with tact would be in order instead of post after post about how the judges are mean nasty people and not good enough to judge your work. This can and should be a learning experience on all sides.

alanmt · 09-12-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SacredCircle

Let's put aside his poor grammar for a moment and look at Triq's post about why he did what he did. Does no one agree with him? I realize he went about it the wrong way, but he was trying to do the right thing. Maybe explaining to him how to critique with tact would be in order instead of post after post about how the judges are mean nasty people and not good enough to judge your work. This can and should be a learning experience on all sides.

I agree. I wasn't in the challenge, so I didn't feel the sting. But hey, let this be a learning experience for all, so we all can improve both as writers and as judges. It seems to me from reading triq's explanation that his/her heart was in the right place, even if the execution was a little rough.

When I look at the harshness of the judging on, say, project runway, I think we all can toughen up, although I must say that when I eventually judge I wll probably try to be a bit more tactful. Chaeronia handled the issue with grace and good sport.

Let's all relax.

And I know I get carried away on minor issues in the debate forums sometimes, but do as I say, not as I do!

ohdear · 09-12-2008, 11:39 AM

Congratulations to the winners.
Thanks for a good prompt.

I very much appreciate the efforts of the judges. It is a hard thing to do. I am an accredited public speaking critic and it never gets easier to give a good critique. We are taught to sandwich it up. Encouraging remark, constructive remark, encouraging remark. That isnt always easy.

I can fully understand why an 18 year old would not understand the reason that Monica would sign off as unfaithfully yours. Just goes to show that humour is lost if you dont have the right audience. A good lesson in itself.

I very much enjoyed the writing exercise. I also enjoyed reading all the entries. Bravo to all who participated. I am looking forward to the next challenge also.

I very much appreciate that every one here, moderators, mentors, judges, administrators are all volenteers. What a generous gift you offer us with all that you do. This is a good quality site that offers great variety. We are very blessed to have the opportunity to have regular challenges such as this to keep the grey matter stimulated. It is all learning, even as a spectator.

Thank you to all who helped make this happen.

Tiamat10 · 09-12-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohdear

Congratulations to the winners.
Thanks for a good prompt.

I very much appreciate the efforts of the judges. It is a hard thing to do. I am an accredited public speaking critic and it never gets easier to give a good critique. We are taught to sandwich it up. Encouraging remark, constructive remark, encouraging remark. That isnt always easy.

I can fully understand why an 18 year old would not understand the reason that Monica would sign off as unfaithfully yours. Just goes to show that humour is lost if you dont have the right audience. A good lesson in itself.

I very much enjoyed the writing exercise. I also enjoyed reading all the entries. Bravo to all who participated. I am looking forward to the next challenge also.

I very much appreciate that every one here, moderators, mentors, judges, administrators are all volenteers. What a generous gift you offer us with all that you do. This is a good quality site that offers great variety. We are very blessed to have the opportunity to have regular challenges such as this to keep the grey matter stimulated. It is all learning, even as a spectator.

Thank you to all who helped make this happen.

You get a medal. Just because.

...Well, actually I don't have a medal. Here, you get a buck-toothed bunny rabbit.

I know you've always wanted one.

Triquediqual · 09-12-2008, 12:43 PM

Just some comments to throw in:

* When I write comments very quickly on this site, ( as I write extremely quickly anyway ) I will make some very bad grammar mistakes all the time, and sometimes my spelling will be wrong, but I don't mind. I do mind, however, when I write mistakes in my own work which I try to be exact on. So please don't relate my comments on this site with my actual ability to see it in other peoples work.

* Like I said, had the topic been "On-Topic" for that girls work, I would have rated it 9. I appreciate she did it and appreciate the time she put into it, and it wasn't the worst in the world. But for a competition, I believe to say one person gets a 9, and equally another who was on-topic get a 9, then I don't think it's fair to give it equally, even if the score was 2/20. So I justify my reason for the purposes of the competition to give her score a zero, only for that reason.

* I completely stand by every comment I made about those peoples work. You have to take tough criticism, I had to. Even though it seems like it's not beneficial however "rude" people may believe it to be, then tough luck, it works if people let it work. (Above, Apologies for saying 18, it was 15, but still, a great piece

).

* I'll Judge in the future, and refuse to change my critiquing style for anyone at all, as I personally believe that:

- If anyone complies with the topic, then that's ok.
- Doesn't have bad grammar mistakes.
- Interesting, original, and Doesn't stray from a topic with a non-important piece.
- Articulation appropriate with the topic, good use of wording and no clashing or awkward or misused wording.

If anyone creates a topic piece that complies with all of these, it would get above 15/20 easily. So take that as a guide for the next time I Judge, and I'm applying for next Months as well, if not, then the Month afterwards. See what Hawke says.

*

Wildcard · 09-12-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triquediqual

So take that as a guide for the next time I Judge, and I'm applying for next Months as well, if not, then the Month afterwards. See what Hawke says.

There's something to keep you up at night.