Amber Leaf

i got woken up this morning by the police hammering on my bedroom door for me to open up.

i told them to go fuck themselves (as i knew i hadn't done anything wrong and they had just woke me up at 6 in the morning) and they tried to force my door in.

i got up and dressed and told them to stop pushing and i would un-lock the door. i did what i said and the main bastard pushed the door open (nearly knocking me over a speaker). i tried to stop him coming in my room and he grabs hold on my arm and pushes me in the room saying he had a warrent to search (which he never showed me) and that he was from immagration control.

as soon as he mentioned what kind of pig he was i got my passport and birth certificate and shoved them in his face telling him to get fucked.

he then thought i was being dodgy because a. i was being 'un-helpfull' and b. i had no arrest history.

i asked him if he wanted to see my national insurance number and he stared at me for ages and then said no, he didn't need anything else, and then just left.

i find on the kitchen table after they've gone a warrent for some gambian guy who must have lived in the house before me (i've lived here 3 weeks).

the police are cunts - simple as. they didn't show me a warrent, they psyically handled me so they could enter my room without telling me why and they didn't even offer an apology.

does anyone reckon i can sue them?

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'Jonny's laying in his sperm coffin and the angel looks down at him and says:
"Oh, pretty boy, can't you show me nothing but surrender?' - Patti Smith

Anarchy for me - Anything for whatever anyone else wishes.

Acid culture, techno culture, underground culture, rebel culture!

JosephB

Where are you Amber Leaf? Just curious. I know jack about it, but I'd imagine it's damn near impossible to sue the cops. You've got to show real damages too, I'd bet, and I think being humiliated and getting pissed of isn't enough, unfortunately.

Hello, by the way!

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-- Albert Einstein

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Amber Leaf

i'm in england in the city i was born in.

the police really really piss me off.

hi back - hope your well.

__________________
'Jonny's laying in his sperm coffin and the angel looks down at him and says:
"Oh, pretty boy, can't you show me nothing but surrender?' - Patti Smith

Anarchy for me - Anything for whatever anyone else wishes.

Acid culture, techno culture, underground culture, rebel culture!

Remedy

I think the way you acted will probably screw over any chances of suing. You were hostile before the door was even open; the judges are going to see that as a reason to use more force, because you weren't really cooperating. Had you been polite and opened the door and whatnot, you might have a chance, but I don't think it'll work any other way. You gave them a case, not the other way around.

Malone

Doesn't matter how you acted (you acted properly, in my opinion), you can't sue them. They'll lie and it's your word against theirs unless you have a few credible witnesses. You're just lucky they didn't shoot you.

I got my ass kicked by a couple cops one time at a search point, and my lawyer said there was nothing I could do. "Bruises could come from anywhere."

alanmt

maybe you just needed a better lawyer, malone.

It does matter how she acted, because her actions may have given the officers probable cause to escalate the encounter, and because her conduct will be so unsympathetic to the jury that they will not want to give her anything. Most people, and especially those who will be serving jury duty, do not share this hostility toward police officers.

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Malone

My lawyer did suck. He used to be a state senator, and I'm friends with his daughter, and he's connected in the good old boy system, so I usually go with him, but he never does seem to do much.

I can't imagine not reacting with a little bit of attitude if the police storm your house in the middle of the night when you know you're innocent. I'd go so far to say that anyone who would happily accept such an act is probably a little too indoctrinated in our pseudo police state. I try to be polite to cops, but you have to draw the limit at some point. True, these guys didn't know who was inside the house, or if little Elian was hiding in the closet, but trying to bust open the door like that and then being so callus is just rude. They could have at least been polite and admitted they must have made a mistake, then joked about it and offered an apology.

lin

I don't know much about English law, but in the States I'd say go find some fire-breathing young ambulance chaser and call a press conference.

You being hostile is hearsay. Their warrant for a man (and lack of one for you) is real evidence, as is a damaged door. Bruises on your arm might help.

Like I say, I have no idea where you stand where you live, but your attitude can be ruled out of it because it can't be proven.

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Remedy

I know that at least here (which is the States, so not England), people are allowed to testify. It would be brought up in court. All eyewitnesses are just giving their account of what happened; I know in some places they can't testify at all, but if they can, that's going to be admissable. If it wasn't, every crook who tried to escape and got taken down would say that they were treated unfairly, and there'd be no way to prove otherwise, short of a video camera being present at every single search, arrest, ect.

Plus, her apartment might have recording out in the hallway (some do, some don't), which would catch at least part of it. And if there is, it'll show them knocking before they tried to bust open her door. Actually, the police, at least around here, tend to take cameras with them when they go on a search, so they might even have tape of her acting like that.

They can come up with reasons why the warrant for that man was issued for that address. Like Malone said, they couldn't have known if she was hiding him. These things have happened before.

I'm not saying she should have been thrilled to have them around, especially at 6AM, but to throw that kind of fit suggests to the police that she's hiding something. They acted reasonably, given the situation.

lin

No they didn't.

I would say SHE acted more normally, actually. Somebody bangs on your door at 6, shows no badge, bashes your door open and lays hands on you when you are obviously not the person they're looking for...I'd say telling them to get fucked is the minimum rsponse.

Nothing the cops did fits the "reasonable" model of police work.

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Remedy

Obviously, I disagree.

When someone bangs on your door at 6, and your initial response is to tell them to fuck off before seeing what they want, you're kind of setting yourself up for a less than understanding bunch. The protocol is to knock, then if the tenant refuses to open (as she did), you bash open the door, which they did. When you attempt to prevent them from coming into a room that they have a warrant to search (and they cannot know that you're not attempting to prevent them from finding who they're seeking; guys sometimes have girls spend the night, and girlfriends tend to get possessive), you're going to be physicially removed if you refuse to move yourself. After that, then, yes, it is appropriate to tell them to get fucked if you're not feeling understanding. Before they even attempt to open the door, it is not.

lin

So what you're saying is... somebody starts banging on your door at an unlikely hour and claims to be the police. Without seeing any ID or anything you are obligated to open the door to them. And to use the sort of language they would prefer.

If they do happen to be cops and bash open the door just as you get to it to open it, then you are "obstructing" them.

Is that your opinion, then?

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Cossack

Next time you need the police, I think you'll be glad that they're there. I agree with Remedy. A policeman can't produce ID from through a door, and since they are immigration, in the time it takes for them to knock, ask nicely and wait, whoever they're looking for could well be out of a window or a back door.

lin

Yeah, a Cossack would think that

None of this has anything to do with NEEDING the police. It has to do with cops acting wrong.

They teach you how to identify yourself. It's very common to show a badge through a night-chained door so the occupant will know you're really a cop.

Duh

If they are immigration, they should be smart enough to know how to approach a place, and be waiting outside the back door.

Maybe British cops need lessons in wetback-chasing and manners from LAPD.

If so, it's a sad fucking commentary.

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AA

I don't understand, how is that hearsay? Everyone there was a firsthand witness.

She acted exactly how I would have acted.

I'm glad for the FOURTH amendment we have here in the States. Not that it would actually stop the cops, but it's still comforting to know it's there.

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