lin

Then how did she get hit by the door when they kicked it in?

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Cossack

It could have travelled through several rooms. These police are big and angry you know. They probably chased her round her house hitting her with it. The OP doesn't mention anything about a night chain. I know she said she told them she would unlock it, but if I was in the place of the police, I would have started revving my engine when she told me to fuck off.

Amber Leaf

I was in bed asleep and someone was kicking my door in. I had the right to tell them to fuck off - simple as. Maybe I've just got a bit of a fucked up outlook at life but if I had been the copper and had woke someone up and harrased them when they weren't the person I was after, whether they had swore at me or not, I would apologise for man-handling them, for damaging their door and for waking them up. In fact I would probably be embarresed at the fact I was part of a raid that had obviously been planned for a while but yet reaped no rewards.

[quote][If I had my way, everyone would have to take a class in politeness, a class in why-the-universe-has-never-revolved-around-you, a class in understanding people and their jobs, and a class in decent manners in public, but my way doesn't seem to be coming around too soon, which is a shame. /QUOTE]

Who are you to decide how one person chooses to interact with another? You want people to realise that the world doesn't revolve around them whilst dictating to the world how they should behaive. Facist maybe?

So if you object to having your privacy invaded you instantly 'seem guilty'. I really don't think (considering at the time of the raid I hadn't done anything wrong) that that kind of prejudice is what is needed from people who are meant to be trusted by the public to protect us.

And if you bothered to read what I have put before you would see that I opened the door slightly to them only to be grabbed by the arm and pushed over my speaker onto my bed. I offered to unlock the door if they stopped kicking. I unlocked the door thinking that if they did have a warrant they would show me it. They didn't and instead used force. I was scared by this and yet you say that it is me who is in the wrong.

It was the sound of them kicking my door in that woke me up. Not a word (especially a swear word) had left my mouth before they started to try and break my door down.

*see previous point*

Yet again you spout this prejudice about how a persons behaviour when scared must instantly mean their guilt.

Could say something here but was brought up better.

But yet you say the police can judge someones guilt by their response to being woken up at 6 in the morning with only 3 hours sleep and someone kicking their door in.

And you have the nerve to call me hypocritical.

__________________
'Jonny's laying in his sperm coffin and the angel looks down at him and says:
"Oh, pretty boy, can't you show me nothing but surrender?' - Patti Smith

Anarchy for me - Anything for whatever anyone else wishes.

Acid culture, techno culture, underground culture, rebel culture!

Remedy

Here is where I feel politeness comes into it. Had she been polite or at least cooperative, they would have been out-of-line. Without that, they were not. She originally talked about suing; with her behavior, she has no real case.

It's possible it would have, but that would not something that one could blame her for. If one wished to avoid that possibility, she could have thrown a towel around herself or cracked the door open enough to explain.

(Amber Leaf - notice how he said "if I were in the officer shoes"? That's an important skill for understanding things.)

Yes, they did. This was unfortunate, but police are human as well. They may have received false information. As it is, the wrong warrant was contributing to their behavior, as they were acting under the knowledge that a potential criminal was living there.

I do not know about where she lives, but I do know that police are sometimes able to obtain warrants for houses that the previous owners have moved out of. This is because evidence may still be present there. This is obviously not the case of hers, as they were clearly expecting criminal behavior, but it is something that can happen in the future.

I disagree. She did not ask to see those things at the door, when it is feasible.

The OP specifically stated in her original post that she was attempting to keep him from her room (she has changed this several times, and as I cannot be sure which one is correct, I'll stick with the original story). The police physically removed her from this. Remember, they were acting under the assumption that there was a man in there who may have to be deported (immigration) and may also have been under investigation for criminal activity. Her action could easily be read as attempting to stall them while he got away; they needed to remove her so that they could get to the rest of the house. If they wanted to hurt her badly, she would be a good deal more damaged.

I'd be willing to bet that if you did a survey, more of the people who told the police to fuck off immediately were guilty than not.

There is a difference between being polite and submissive. One can easily stand up for their rights while being polite.

Ah, an answer to my question. Thank you.

However, McDonald's workers are not likely to be in a sensitive situation where they could literally die. In situations where the homeowner is potentially dangerous and the woman you're speaking to is throwing a fit instead of acting like a confused new owner, they're going to go for the safer course of action (safer for them).

I guessed as much (to the first part, not that you'd been in both situations). I'll say this though: if she had not given them a reason to act like that, I would be sympathetic to the OP and agree that the cops were out-of-line. Because her behavior suggested that she was guilty to them and the fact that she is making no attempt to understand that, I am not.

Remedy

I'm sure you (won't) forgive me, but I highly doubt that. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that you would have acted the same way they did. And then come here to complain about it.

Someone who's sitting here and wondering if maybe trying to have a reasonable debate with you was a mistake. Well, actually I'm sure that it was, I'm just trying to figure out why you act the way you do. Are you a social person, by chance? Nuerotypicals are so hard to guess at.

Actually, my comment that you quoted was tongue in cheek. You just didn't get it, apparently.

Well, yes, you do. Sorry to break that to you. They didn't know that you hadn't done anything wrong, and you were not acting innocent, really. The police are going to try and protect themselves, since they are usually the targets if something goes wrong; them doubting you is understandable.

I did read what you originally posted, obviously. And you stated that you woke to them hammering and "then" they tried to kick in your door. You also stated that you were trying to stop the "pig" from entering your room.

I say you need to stick to one, clear story.

I explained above. If you don't get that either, let me know, and I'll write a fun little quiz for you. I started to before so that you might be able to understand, but I got bored and stopped.

The prospect of this amuses me. Feel free to share. If your thought is that I don't have any friends and family, I'm sorry to inform you that I do. If your thought is more original than that, please share.

Above, again.

Well, yes.

AA

You know what this thread has brought to my attention? I very rarely see two female posters go at each other with the same aggressiveness as the male posters usually do. I don't know what to attribute that to, I just noticed it.

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There's not much else to say about that.

Amber Leaf

how do you act innocent? im sure if you quizzed everyone in the world the majority of people would be pissed off with someone waking them up by kicking their door in. i was innocent. my behaviour wasn't guilty in any way because i was innocent. ive been in houses before that have been raided and the police looking for people who are guilty and i find people who are guilty are more calm and co-operative (or un-coroporative based on the extent of the crime/how much trouble they are going to get in) firstly because they will be expecting it to some extent and secondly because they want to say as little as possible just in case they give anything away.

for someone doing a course in criminal justice i ought to read up a bit on human behaviour if i were you.

i woke up to them hammering on my door. by hammering i mean hitting it then kicking it. i shouted fuck off and then said "who rhe fuck is it?" or something to that extent to which they responded "the police" i said "fuck off, i haven't done anything wrong (i had just woke up at this point and in hindsight i wouldn't have said that but the police shud be aware that they are catching people at such a vunerable point). then they shouted open up and i shouted "what the fuck am i meant to have done"

now considering that i live on the second floor and have quite a drop from my window and as it turned out there were police on the street there's going to be no way of anyone escaping from my room and at the time i wasn't even certain that it was the police i was hessitant to open my door.

i didn't have much choice in the matter because they went from hitting and kicking the door to trying to charge it and fully break it down. i quickly put some jeans and a top on and ran to the door telling them if they stopped charging at it then i would un-lock it.

when i did unlock it i opened it slightly (there's an outy bit in the wall near my door where there was once a chimney and my speaker is next to it and it causes a kind of obstruction so someone stood at the door doesn't get to see the entire room) so that the 'policeman could show me ID/a warrant.

now its my understanding that the law states that before a policeman can force his way into your room by grabbing your arm, pushing you over a speaker and pushing you onto a bed he must first show the warrant to enter the property or at least his ID.

now the policeman in question when realising that he had woken up a blatently non-illigal immagrant from gambia called omar bistake (male) and that he had in fact scared a single woman in her 20's living on her own to the point she was scared, freaked out and swearing in anger for fear of someone invading her personal space should have at least apologised.

i would. i hate being sweared at as much as the next person. there's been times in my life when i thought i was rightly telling someone off for something they'd done wrong and they'd be calling me every name under the sun and i'd proper attack them and hurt them and it would turn out in the long run that i was wrong and they were innocent.

when stuff like that happened i would apologise for putting them through so much unnessecary hurt. i mean - if you can't swallow your own pride and admit you are wrong and have hurt someone because of it then what kind of cunt are you?

__________________
'Jonny's laying in his sperm coffin and the angel looks down at him and says:
"Oh, pretty boy, can't you show me nothing but surrender?' - Patti Smith

Anarchy for me - Anything for whatever anyone else wishes.

Acid culture, techno culture, underground culture, rebel culture!

Remedy

I haven't been around long enough here, but I know that on other boards, the females tend to get nastier than the males. And this isn't that aggressive at all; I've seen much, much worse.

Amber Leaf - I will leave the acting innnocent/guilty part alone, because I'm fully aware that we're never going to get anywhere with it. I'll leave the last part alone as well, because I have a feeling that will just spark another debate.

See now, this is what you didn't mention at first. This does change things. The fact that you asked before you opened the door and then clearly opened the door intending for identification being given does mean that they should not have entered your house. Your extended conversation is more realistic, and in the new light, yes, they were out of line.

lin

Actually telling the cops to fuck off when rudely awakened IS acting innocent. The innocent should not have to fear the police.

Acting guilty would be running out the back door, shooting through the door, or making sounds like a herd of reindeer hoping the cops would be fooled and go away.

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Malone

That seems ultimately irrelevant. The police know the job they're signing up for. If they can't handle themselves appropriately, they should either not seek the job or should be weeded out in training.

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There Is A Policeman Inside All Our Heads: He Must Be Destroyed

lin

It all comes down to Brits being wimps. In the US she would have just shot the fuckers through the door, blown the smoke out of her barrel and gone down to McDonalds for some Egg McMuffins and maybe a few lessons in how the counter geeks there aren't as safe at they might have thought.

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adrianhayter

Amber-I have a sense you would be a hell of a blind date. It's not every girl who carries a sword and I thought my neighborhood was rough.

A while back, the local constabulary decided to run a drug bust in the mountains where I live. They wrote a grant, got federal funds, helicopters, C-17s, troop carriers - they were going to war. Anyway, around six in the evening, they surrounded my vegetable garden, flack suits and all. All I knew was that a dozen strange men were stomping my tomatoes so I chambered a round just to be sure. The sound of a nine millimeter in the cool of the evening makes everyone polite.

They never found the dope grower because they never asked-everyone knew where he lived.

Adrian

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My Blog

...and still, two years later, he continues to write aimlessly with no apparent purpose in mind.

lin

Whoa... a sword? Hell, I'd date her in a hot minute.

I don't CARE if she's blind.

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Cipher2

It aint polite to kick an innocent person's door in while they are asleep. The police get it wrong sometimes. I heard about an OAP, innocent I might add, getting her house raided while she was in it and she did tell them where to go. It's lucky she was strong. That kind of shock could give an OAP a heart attack.