Amber Leaf

it would have to be the most extreme of circumstances before i needed the police.

i think any rational human being who has been woken up at 6 in the morning after only being asleep for 3 hours after a long shift at work would be inclined to tell whoever is waking them to fuck off.

im not going to do anything about the police because its not worth the hassle. once they see you as a 'trouble causer' and have your name then you are basically ridden of any 'rights' you previously had.

i suppose its the same everywhere. you're a copper = do what you want.

__________________
'Jonny's laying in his sperm coffin and the angel looks down at him and says:
"Oh, pretty boy, can't you show me nothing but surrender?' - Patti Smith

Anarchy for me - Anything for whatever anyone else wishes.

Acid culture, techno culture, underground culture, rebel culture!

Remedy

Why is 6AM suddenly the devil's hour to everyone around here? Christ, if 6AM was the middle of the night, I would be getting a lot more sleep.

But anyway, she didn't even ask to see ID. She told them to fuck off before she even got to the door; if she's not at the door, how are they supposed to show ID? The door was closed.

And when someone tells you to fuck off, I don't think your first impression is going to be, gee, I'll wait here because obviously that means she's going to open the door for me. She also said she was trying to prevent them from getting in the room; that is obstruction, yes.

This is my opinion: If you're going be bitchy towards them from the very start, you're going to get cops being bitchy back to you. How does she get the right to act like that but they don't?

AA

Because they had absolutely no reason/right to be there. If they had a warrant based on "probable cause", then it was based under the false assumption that the previous renter still lived there. That is a VERY easy error to correct. All they had to do was call the apartment complex sometime, within three weeks before they decided to go on some man-hunt raid in her apartment. Believe it or not, people move in and out of apartments relatively frequently, it's appalling that their police work was so sloppy. And then to treat her like that afterward, and not apologize...

they should FUCK OFF.

__________________
There's not much else to say about that.

Amber Leaf

how do i get the right to act like that??????

because they were in my house for one, they didn't say why they were in my house when i asked them what they wanted and they were trying to kick my door in.

i had to say "stop fucking kicking the door and I'll unlock it" because i can't unlock it whilst force is being put on it and STILL they refused to show me a warrent, say what/who they wanted and grabbed me and pushed me EVEN THOUGH i did allow them access to my room.

if i wanted to really obstruct them i could have just waited for them to kick the door in and them stabbed them with the sword ive got in my room (which i think is fair if someone has just broke their way into your room without saying why they are and whilst i am undressed in bed) but i knew i hadnt done anything wrong so even though i was really pissed off at being woken up i still allowed them in my room and they STILL were abusive.

the police are pigs - simple as. they forget who actually pays their wages and think because they wear a uniform that it gives them the right to bully and humiliate people.

__________________
'Jonny's laying in his sperm coffin and the angel looks down at him and says:
"Oh, pretty boy, can't you show me nothing but surrender?' - Patti Smith

Anarchy for me - Anything for whatever anyone else wishes.

Acid culture, techno culture, underground culture, rebel culture!

Remedy

You didn't answer the whole question. I'll rephrase it: why do you think it's ok for you to be rude to them before you even knew what they wanted, but don't think it's ok for them to be rude in return to you? You're doing the same thing to them that you accuse them of doing; you're immediately being abusive towards them without knowing why they're even there. Personally, I disagree with your assessment of the police, but that's your opinion; if you want to call them pigs and tell them to fuck off, ect, that's fine; do what you want. I'm saying that if you do that, don't expect them to be polite towards you.

You were uncooperative from the start, and you didn't improve at all. They essentially had to force in the door; even if they didn't literally do it, would you have opened it if they weren't trying? It sounded to me more like you were concerned about the door, so you weren't opening it to them to help. They're naturally going to be suspicious, and you didn't do anything to show them why they shouldn't be. Really, your probably elevated it. If they believe that someone in there is trying to escape deportation, they're not going to stand around for a chat, especially when they've all ready lost valuable time trying to get the door open.

Honestly, I'm willing to be that if you had gone to the door and opened it enough to see ID and what they wanted (instead of telling them to fuck off straight away), they probably would have been a bit more understanding. If you had been cooperative, they might even have apologized. Know the Golden Rule - treat others how you wish to be treated? I don't tend to say it much, and honestly I don't usually think it's worth much, but this is a classic case. You were being rude towards them, so they were rude towards you. Why is that so hard to understand?

As for the allowing them into your room - you stated in your original post
[quoute]i tried to stop him coming in my room [/quote]

Amber Leaf

i think it is ok to be rude to ANYBODY who wakes me up at 6 in the morning by rudely banging on my door and trying to kick it in.

at the end of the day - in my own house when i have not done anything wrong i have the right to my privacy and the right to be able to tell anyone who invades it to fuck off.

[/quote]

once i realised that they were trying to kick my door in i un-locked it and opened it. i tried to stop the pig coming in my room and instead tried to let him talk to me at my door.

he didn't show me a warrent or ask to come in my room at this point. he just grabbed my arm and forced me (via nearly knocking me over my speaker) into my room.

the police do not have the right to enter your property, especially your bedroom, without showing you the warrant they have to do so.

without being rude or anything - why do you defend the police and think they have a right to do anything they like? it suggests to me that you have paid too much attention to the media's bullshit about how we should just relinquish any rights we have to our privacy.

so if i started banging on your bedroom door after you had been asleep for just THREE hours telling you to open up would you not be just a little bit pissed off?

after all - i knew i hadn't done anything wrong and for all i know it could have been anyone at my door claiming to be the police.

it is my basic right as a human being to be able to tell someone who is trying to invade my personal space to fuck off - especially if that someone will not say why they are trying to kick my bedroom door in.

people like you make me sick. if you had your own way we'd all be under constant cctv observation (even in our own houses) and without any human rights to freedom at all.

__________________
'Jonny's laying in his sperm coffin and the angel looks down at him and says:
"Oh, pretty boy, can't you show me nothing but surrender?' - Patti Smith

Anarchy for me - Anything for whatever anyone else wishes.

Acid culture, techno culture, underground culture, rebel culture!

Remedy

Like I all ready said, if you want to be rude to them, fine; be rude. Just don't expect them to be polite towards you after all of that.

Partly because I dislike sweeping statements about how all of the police are pigs, partly because I'm taking a criminal justic class this year, partly because it annoys me to no ends when people act hypocritical, and partly because quite frankly I get tired of people thinking that they can be rude while others cannot; I've seen it in multiple situations, and they never get it.

I actually don't pay much attention to the media. I read a few news articles a day, and that's it. I don't watch TV, I don't read magazines, ect. I form my own opinions that are based on a lifetime of observation, and i try to be fair to everyone, including those I don't like.

The issue isn't your privacy. The issue is how you treated them and how they treated you in return. I think if everyone had decided to try and work out with a miniumual amount of insulting, swearing, ect, it might have gone significantly better, and your privacy wouldn't have been at risk.

You're welcome to do such. Yeah, I won't be thrilled, and I may be pissed off, but I'll be polite about it, because first and foremost, I've learned that being rude does almost nothing. It tends to make the situation worse.

You didn't even check at first to see if it was the police, so that arguement really doesn't stand.

I'll get to the rest in a bit; I need to do a few errands first.

AA

That seems very optimistic. I've had many experiences with American police (I really can't speak to the police over there), and the last thing they want to do is calmly talk. Especially if they've gone through the trouble to get a warrant, at that point, they're ready to kick ass and take names. That's okay with me. IF THEY DO THE FUCKING POLICE WORK ahead of time. :/

The police should really have the correct information before they decide they are willing to bust open a door.

On a side note, and I don't want to be rude at all but it really really bothers me when people spell etc wrong.

__________________
There's not much else to say about that.

Amber Leaf

the fact that they were knocking on my door shouting 'POLICE' kind does make it stand.

i have the right to be rude to whoever I like in my own house when I have not done anything wrong.

Do you really believe that I am wrong for being rude in circumstances where I am interupted from sleep by someone trying to kick my door in, I am naked in bed and there is nothing to tell me who is behind the door other than some guy shouting 'police'?

I don't know if you live in some kind of perfect suburban area where the only thing that ever occurs is some local scallys knicking your milk in the morning but I don't and one thing I've learnt in life is to never trust anyone to be who they say they are when they are trying to kick your door down.

So now I don't just only have to relinquish my rights to privacy but also my right to an opinion.

1 - The main issue here is my privacy.

2 - My privacy was at risk the moment they started banging on my door and trying to kick it in. As I said before - I didn't know for sure they were the police. My privacy was at risk a second time when they failed to show me a warrant before grabbing my arm and forcing their way into my room.

3 - Do you then think that if you were woken up to someone claiming to be the police trying to kick your bedroom door in that you would respond in a polite manner? And then if said 'policeman' (who could be anyone for as far as you know) failed to show any ID or warrant (especially having just stated after you ask why you should you open the door that they had one) and psyically forced their way into your room; would you not then be upset enough to lash out with anger?

Sorry but what a load of crap!

Nobody who is human would be polite about someone unnessecary trying to break into their bedroom when they know they haven't done anything wrong.

__________________
'Jonny's laying in his sperm coffin and the angel looks down at him and says:
"Oh, pretty boy, can't you show me nothing but surrender?' - Patti Smith

Anarchy for me - Anything for whatever anyone else wishes.

Acid culture, techno culture, underground culture, rebel culture!

Remedy

All righty then. I'm back, and I'll respond to this stuff in order.

As it is the right of the police to search a place if they had a warrant for it.

Here's the issue I think we're having the biggest hang-up with. You did not attempt to see what they wanted or whether or not they really were the police before you told them to fuck off. This is important. Had you done that, then the rest of your complaints would be valid, but you did not. You did not give them a chance to explain to you before you uttered those words.

As for the first part, I honestly don't care. You are, by the by, the third person, I think, who's told me that, all in the past year. I must be getting more disgusting as I get older. Huh. I would suggest that you answer my question about sensitivity in another thread, but I'm guessing you won't.

As for the second part, you must tell me more about what I want. It's smashingly interesting. I didn't know I would want that kind of thing; people really need to tell me these desires I have. Why am I always the last to know?

In all seriousness though, I don't want people to be under constant observation. If I had my way, everyone would have to take a class in politeness, a class in why-the-universe-has-never-revolved-around-you, a class in understanding people and their jobs, and a class in decent manners in public, but my way doesn't seem to be coming around too soon, which is a shame. Well, my children will get those lessons, as I did, but other than that, nope.

I've had experiences with the police as well, and maybe it's because I just don't seem guilty, but I've really never had a problem with them. They've helped me several times as it is.

I'm not planning on saying they're all angels or anything like that, but I tend to roll my eyes when I hear that they're all evil.

They went on what they had, and yes, it was wrong. Obviously though, they didn't know that when they went in there. They weren't getting any signs that they were at the wrong place at all as it was; all they were getting is an apparent string of curses and commands. That's not going to make them start to think that maybe they got the wrong address.

My apologies. My online spell checker isn't working at the moment, and I didn't feel the urge to run it through Word. Despite the fact that this is a writing site, there are those who can't even be bothered to use semi-proper grammar, so I didn't feel as though I was committing a grevious error.

The fact that you didn't even bother to get up to check when they first said that kind of makes it doesn't. If you had gone there as soon as you could (without any fuck offs, etc) and asked to see their ID, and they wouldn't show it to you then, I would agree with you.

I all ready said that it is your choice to be rude in your household, regardless of who is there (or not there). I just don't see why you feel that you have a right to be rude, but they do not have the right to be rude in return.

I believe that if you had calmly stated that they had woken you up, you weren't wearing anything, and would they please hold on for a minute so you could throw something on, they wouldn't have tried to bust down your door immediately. I also believe that if you had done that, there would have been less of a chance of them being rude to you.

I live in an area where we have wannabe kidnappers who are stupid enough to try and lure kids into their cars with candy. So no, I do not live in crime central. I am, however, a daughter of a woman who grew up in the bad section of Newark, New Jersey, and thus have been overloaded on what to dos and what no to dos concerning people knocking at your door.

Do people actually still leave their milk outside? I assure you, the place I live in would love to institute that as a requirment, but it wouldn't work too well.

Once again, this goes beyond not trusting them. You did not give them an opportunity to show their IDs originally. You told them to fuck off without asking for them to prove that they were, in fact, the police.

I think I need to write an obituary for reading comphrension. Or, wait, are you telling me what I want again?

(Just in case you didn't get that, it means that I never said either of those things.)

I'll just make this short and sweet, because I don't think explaining it again will help much. Your privacy would not have been in as much danger of being violated if you had acted calmly instead of behaving in a manner that's automatically going to make them suspect you further. Instead of behaving in a calm, confused manner that they would expect from a new homeowner, you acted like you were a hostile girlfriend/wife/whatever of the suspect. They're not going to respect you as much if you won't respect them at all.

The running opinion among my family and close friends is that I'm not human. Naturally, I am, but apparently the lack of sensitivity appears to disqualify me.

And actually, I would be polite - at least on the surface. I was raised to be polite, and I picked up from a very young age that throwing a temper tantrum only makes the more foolish feel bad enough to be nice to you. Besides which, I have this vague understanding that the police can't read minds and thus cannot divine that the person they are talking to is innocent.

Katastrof

I have to agree with the OP here; the Police were out-of-line. I don't understand either where politeness comes into play here. If somebody woke me up at 6 in the morning when i had barely any sleep I would be a bit grumpy too. Also if it was the police I'd demand to know what they want, and like somebody else said, identification to know if they are really the police. Being polite in this situation is the last thing I would think of especially since the police were being a-holes themselves.

Nope defiantly would not have happened. I think this would have panicked the police more than anything else. I mean if you were a cop trying to take a criminal down and you heard the suspect say, "Hold on a second I'm naked, let me get some cloths on." wouldn't you be more suspicious, especially since criminals don't act that way? If I were in the officer shoes I would think they were arming themselves and try to break the door down even faster in order to diffuse the situation.

Ya but the police screwed up and got a warrant for the wrong person/place. Like another poster said, if they had been doing their jobs correctly they would have known the original suspect had moved out. This means the police DID NOT have the right to search the place. They screwed up and therefore their action was wrong; even if they were doing what their job entitled them to do. It's called negligence.

I ripped this from wikipedia:

However, even if we say the police had a valid warrant it still doesn't excuse how they treated here. They didn't show a badge, or the warrant and therefore have failed to uphold their standards. Not only that but they also physically harmed the OP without any provocation. I'm sorry, but saying "Fuck Off" is not provoking someone, especially since the police probably hear this stuff more often than not.

Actually I think acting submissively let's people take advantage of you.

There's a time and a place to be polite and when a person is yelling at you to open your door at 6:00 in the morn, I wouldn't say that is the time or the place. Being polite goes too far sometimes and I think standing up for your rights is a better course of action in order to secure your privacy.

As do I.

__________________
Read: A Novel Idea
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes."
~ Frieda Norris

lin

Yeah, I see what you mean.

What I mean is...it's testimony. As opposed to physical evidence of the warrant and broken door.

__________________

Remedy

Huzzah. Finally, some understanding.

I know what you mean as well. It really depends on what kind of jury you get, at the end of the day. There are cases that swing both ways. I know of at least one where a very obviously guilty person was given a very, very light sentence because the state attorneys didn't use testimony to their advantage (they relied solely on physical evidence, which was damning in its own right), whereas the defense used so much testimony that the jury actually felt sorry for the defendant. On the other hand, I know of at least one case where the physical evidence definitely trumped the testimony, to the point of which they ruled that the victim wasn't a victim at all. It can go both ways.

Katastrof - I'll repond to you tomorrow, perhaps. As of half an hour ago, my dog is having some fairly serious problems (healthwise), and I don't feel like trying to make my point at the moment.

Cossack

But she didn't go to open the door, even with a night-chain on. She told them to fuck off. How many policemen would have had to take part in this operation? How large was the house? Should there have been one outside every window? If you want to cover the house and not break the door down, you'd need a lot of police. And a lot of time. Should they have just sieged the house? Waited and starved them out? There is a sad fucking commentary about British police, but it's simply that they couldn't have pulled off an organised, peaceful encirclement of the house. They have a budget. They've got places to get to. There simply aren't enough of them. There are 261 per 100,000 citizens compared to 353 in Albania and 427 in Croatia. And those aren't countries known for their security and prosperity.

Malone

Remedy: The reason the police should have responded to her/his? rudeness with politeness is because they are professionals performing their job. It's not like a McDonald's worker can start screaming at a rude customer and expect not to be fired.

The police who take part in the kind of scenarios presented in the OP tend to have completely different personalities than those most people encounter. The guy pulling you over and writing you a ticket is usually pretty laid back and genial, the cops busting into your house are going to abuse you, curse you, and do everything they can to make their trip worthwhile.

I've been in both situations. The difference is incredibly dramatic.