Thread: Adverbs...

Originally Posted by Sam W

For a reader, you might want to brush up on your comprehension skills, Joe. The OP said adverbs. No mention was made of a specific kind.

Rob seems to think avoiding them entirely is the solution.

The OP did mention a specific kind -- he provided an example in reference to King -- and that was an “ly” verb. Go back and look at it.

And Rob has made his position on the issue very clear – I don’t need to speak for him. If you want to talk about reading comprehension – take in and try to process his comments as a whole, don’t cherry-pick the one sentence that suits your argument. I know what he means, and I bet everyone else here does too.

You’re going out of your way to make this an argument. Everyone is getting this but you. It isn’t about ALL adverbs -- it’s about a specific type of adverb and how they’re used.

I've always understood the rule to apply to the ly variety and so has everyone else in this particular thread (and everyone I've ever talked to about this) Maybe you should drop it, Sam. We're all aware of your opinion on the matter. But no one here is dealing in absolutes or talking about anything other than superfluous ly adverbs. So if your beef is with the people who say never use any of them maybe go rage at the other writing forums which I'm sure are full of people saying that.

Oh dear -- you said "rule!" Forty lashes with a wet noodle for you!

Haha. Not the wet noodle again.

You know you love it.

Originally Posted by luckyscars

So here's a question that's been bugging me for quite some time. I always considered my style of writing to be fairly simplistic (out of choice, rather than necessity) and I usually prefer short, lean sentences over long Dickensian meanders. I'm the kind of writer who'd sooner tell a story through dialogue and action than description. However, as I've come along with my first 'real' novel I've noticed that I'm increasingly starting to use adverbs, particularly when writing dialogue, and I was wondering what other people thought about the issue. I recently read Stephen King's book 'On Writing', in which he dedicates a sizeable chunk to criticizing heavy adverb use, particularly in dialogue (i.e "I love you," Fred said, breathlessly). I don't remember that he ever gives any specific reason why he doesn't like them, only that he considered them lazy and amateurish. I should also say that I'm generally a big fan of King's writing style and I use a lot of horror elements in my fiction so I have reason to value his opinion.

So my question is, in your opinion, how much use of adverbs is considered acceptable? And has anyone got any idea of why writers like King don't like them? Obviously this is a personal preference issue, but that's exactly what I'm looking for.

So based on most of the replies you've gotten so far, I'd say the answer to your question is: Use sparingly (pun intended).

Use them as you need them, but don't overdo it. Regardless of what Stephen King or Ray Bradbury or Noah Lukeman says, you CAN use them. They're words, we're writers, and that makes them our tools. But you can also use them too much. When I edit or critique a piece, the only time I point out adverbs is when I see more than one in the same sentence (or several in the same paragraph).

The idea of them being an indicator of lazy writing is when they're used to modify a weak verb, rather than just taking the time to think of a better one. For example: "He walked quickly over the bridge." (He hurried, he hastened, he ran, he sprinted, etc.)

So use them. That's what they're there for. But don't depend on them. Challenge yourself and your vocabulary when you edit. Ask yourself if you really need that adverb or if you can think of a better word to use instead.

Originally Posted by Rob

and for some people avoiding them almost altogether is considered a solution.

Originally Posted by Sam W

Rob seems to think avoiding them entirely is the solution.

Please don't misquote me like that. It's offensive, and it doesn't make you look at all clever.

Originally Posted by Sam W

'Use adjectives sparingly'.

That's a piece of advice I've encountered before. I wonder if they mean to use adjectives that end in '-ly' sparingly, or use them all sparingly? It would stand to reason that 'adjectives' covers the entire collection. So, to give advice for a writer to use adverbs sparingly means for them to use all adverbs sparingly. You can't chop and choose just to suit your own argument/rule system. That's nonsense.

What's the difference between 'almost' and 'nearly'. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Except for the fact that self-important writers see the -'ly- and turn their nose up at it.

No, Sam, it's not nonsense. If someone has ever said, and only said, "Use adverbs sparingly" and nothing more, and if you'd never seen any other discussions about the use of adverbs, then I could understand your position. As it is, you're insisting that this discussion is about all adverb types. It isn't. It never has been. No-one is chopping and choosing. Go do some research and you'll find that out for yourself. Then come back and have a sensible discussion about it.

As well as the main point that adverbs are usually used to modify a weak verb and can be written out with a stronger verb, there's one interesting school of thought that suggests using too many -ly adverbs 'feels' wrong due to the repetition of the 'ly sound when reading. Not totally convinced, but just thought I'd throw it into the mix!

I'm wondering why the thread was moved. This isn't a grammar issue -- it's about preference and style.