Thread: Grammar!

Grammar!


In the little while I have been knocking about writingforums.com, I have noticed one problem in particular. When a reader finds a flaw in in someone’s work, they usually don't have the time to explain the remedy in any great detail. So, I thought what was needed was a place where a little more help could be dispensed.


Of course, if you want something doing, you have to do it yourself. So, despite the fact my written English can make grown Spag Nazis cry, here we are giving it a go.


If anyone spots me making a mistake, please correct me. Any questions, or if my explanation is failing in clarity, let me know. I realise a lot of what we will deal with, will be already fully known, we will just have to grin and bear it. If you wish to punish yourself by really digging deep, try English Glossary of Grammar Terms - UsingEnglish.com


If you have a sentence that someone has highlighted for your attention, and you would like a slightly deeper understanding of why, please post the sentence here and I will do my best to help.



For my first foray into Grammar, I thought we could deal with Tenses.


First of all I am going to tell you what you already know.


Past …....She has spoken of the past.
Present....She speaks of the past.
Future.....She will speak of the past.


Very rarely can you mix two or more in a story, however playing with tenses can be a useful tool in your special effects box.


Tomorrow, she will be back where she started.


If you have a tense related question, try me. With a bit of luck I will learn something my self.

Originally Posted by bazz cargo

Grammar!


In the little while I have been knocking about writingforums.com, I have noticed one problem in particular. When a reader finds a flaw in in someone’s work, they usually don't have the time to explain the remedy in any great detail. So, I thought what was needed was a place where a little more help could be dispensed.


Of course, if you want something doing, you have to do it yourself. So, despite the fact my written English can make grown Spag Nazis cry, here we are giving it a go.


If anyone spots me making a mistake, please correct me. Any questions, or if my explanation is failing in clarity, let me know. I realise a lot of what we will deal with, will be already fully known, we will just have to grin and bear it. If you wish to punish yourself by really digging deep, try English Glossary of Grammar Terms - UsingEnglish.com


If you have a sentence that someone has highlighted for your attention, and you would like a slightly deeper understanding of why, please post the sentence here and I will do my best to help.



For my first foray into Grammar, I thought we could deal with Tenses.


First of all I am going to tell you what you already know.


Past …....She has spoken of the past.
Present....She spoke of the past.
Future.....She will speak of the past.


Very rarely can you mix two or more in a story, however playing with tenses can be a useful tool in your special effects box.


Tomorrow, she will be back where she started.


If you have a tense related question, try me. With a bit of luck I will learn something my self.

Kerboom!

Present - She speaks of the past.

One nil to Bloggy

God bless you, bazz. May your quest be fruitful and rewarding.

dear Bazz thank you for thinking something great for us, I love threads like that.
'getting to the heart of everything is a gift, getting to the heart a language is symphony' to me.
THANK YOU!!

PRESENT continous and the PRESENT futur?

I am going to the shop before it closes

OR

I will go to the shop before it closes?



which to use in a short story?

Originally Posted by Nacian

dear Bazz thank you for thinking something great for us, I love threads like that.
'getting to the heart of everything is a gift, getting to the heart a language is symphony' to me.
THANK YOU!!

PRESENT continous and the PRESENT futur?

I am going to the shop before it closes

OR

I will go to the shop before it closes?



which to use in a short story?

As ever, it depends on context. The first means that you are in the process, the second means that you are not yet in the process. The second allows for several pages of whatever before the action of going to the shop, the first doesn't.

Originally Posted by Bloggsworth

As ever, it depends on context. The first means that you are in the process, the second means that you are not yet in the process. The second allows for several pages of whatever before the action of going to the shop, the first doesn't.

the PRESENT CONTINUOUS still does not make sense to me and this is the reason why:

I am sleeping, although grammatically correct the concept does not exist.
when you are asleep does not apply because you can't talk like that when asleep
I am asleep.
I am dreaming
then you can't say
I am going to dream ...because it is not something you predict.

and then
I am going to sleep.
is the near futur, so not in the process cause you are still talking.
as oppose,
I will sleep, sometime.
not sure when so the near future/unknown futur if you can say that??

In other word the continous deos not apply to all the verbs
the futur does .

Originally Posted by Nacian

the PRESENT CONTINUOUS still does not make sense to me and this is the reason why:

I am sleeping, although grammatically correct the concept does not exist.
when you are asleep does not apply because you can't talk like that when asleep
I am asleep.
I am dreaming
then you can't say
I am going to dream ...because it is not something you predict.

and then
I am going to sleep.
is the near futur, so not in the process cause you are still talking.
as oppose,
I will sleep, sometime.
not sure when so the near future/unknown futur if you can say that??

In other word the continous deos not apply to all the verbs
the futur does .

As a writer you should know that you don't always refer to the present time when using present tense. From a storytellers point of view it can be a powerful tool to bring the reader or listener back to the time where the action took place, or forward to the time when it will take place.

"Imagine this scenario:

I am laying in my bed, asleep. One of my feet is dangling off the edge of the bed, when a creepy-looking spider appears. It comes running across the floor, I'm still asleep, unaware of the imposing danger, when SUDDENLY..."

You're referring to yourself in past tense, but bring the listener in as a bystander. Instead of just telling the story as something that has happened, you create the illusion for the listener that it's happening right there and then, a very poweful tool.

Originally Posted by SixPence

As a writer you should know that you don't always refer to the present time when using present tense. From a storytellers point of view it can be a powerful tool to bring the reader or listener back to the time where the action took place, or forward to the time when it will take place.

"Imagine this scenario:

I am laying in my bed, asleep. One of my feet is dangling off the edge of the bed, when a creepy-looking spider appears. It comes running across the floor, I'm still asleep, unaware of the imposing danger, when SUDDENLY..."

You're referring to yourself in past tense, but bring the listener in as a bystander. Instead of just telling the story as something that has happened, you create the illusion for the listener that it's happening right there and then, a very poweful tool.

I can definetely see what you mean.
but wouldn't it more powerful if it read
he is laying in his bed, asleep.One of his feet is dangling off the edge of the bed, when a creepy-looking spider appears. It comes running across the floor, he is still asleep, unaware of the imposing danger, when SUDDENLY..."

then the listener is also the viewer because he reads/listens and sees.
that's THREE in one go.

Not if you're telling a story about yourself.

Originally Posted by Nacian

the PRESENT CONTINUOUS still does not make sense to me and this is the reason why:

I am sleeping, although grammatically correct the concept does not exist.
when you are asleep does not apply because you can't talk like that when asleep
I am asleep.
I am dreaming
then you can't say
I am going to dream ...because it is not something you predict.

and then
I am going to sleep.
is the near futur, so not in the process cause you are still talking.
as oppose,
I will sleep, sometime.
not sure when so the near future/unknown futur if you can say that??

In other word the continous deos not apply to all the verbs
the futur does .

I can talk in my sleep - My wife still wants to know who Susan is....

Originally Posted by Bloggsworth

I can talk in my sleep - My wife still wants to know who Susan is....

haha...most importantly do you know who Susan is? hehe..

I talked in my sleep.
that is still incorrect because unless someone told you or you recorded yourself you still would not know wether you did or not.
that also means it is in the past which means it is no longet applicable because it is finished.
it is like a catch 22.

Bazz
Nuance between: the present continous and the futur?
1) I will dance
2) I am going to dance.
Does
the first means you are 99% sure you will.
and
the second means you may or may not dance but you are thinking about it?

Bazz
Nuance between: the present continous and the futur?
1) I will dance
2) I am going to dance.
Does
the first means you are 99% sure you will.
and
the second means you may or may not dance but you are thinking about it?

This is one of those special effects questions. The purpose of the possible dancer is at stake here;'I will dance' is a certitude to the person.
'I am going to dance' is an emphasis.

So:
"Yes Sidney, I will dance." (Mellow).
Or:
"Yes Doris, I am going to dance." (Assertive).

It depends on what you wish to convey.

This is very useful Bazz, thank you for creating this.