Thread: A kamikaze comma question.

You can thank Sam & Olly for putting this mess into my head.

There is no comma in the final sentence of the following passage.

Horace found the building easily, entered, and gazed about, seeking someone to assist him.

A severe-looking and cadaverous man in a waistcoat, eyeshade and sleeve garters sat at a high desk, writing in a ledger. He looked up scowling as Horace approached.

Here are three alternatives, giving a total of four ways of expressing it.

Which is best? Can you say why?


1. He looked up, scowling as Horace approached.

2. He looked up scowling, as Horace approached.

3. He looked up, scowling, as Horace approached.

4. He looked up scowling as Horace approached.

1. The implication is that he scowled for the duration of Horace's approach.
2. He is looking up the word "scowling" in a dictionary.
3. Is correct, the act of scowling becomes secondary to the main action.
4. See 2.

There should also be no comma after "entered" in the first sentence.

Originally Posted by Baron

1. The implication is that he scowled for the duration of Horace's approach.
2. He is looking up the word "scowling" in a dictionary.
3. Is correct, the act of scowling becomes secondary to the main action.
4. See 2.

Thanks for that. You make more sense than those other two.

There should also be no comma after "entered" in the first sentence.

This is interesting. I know the rule about not needing a comma after the second of three items, however in this case there are other considerations. The image I want to create for the reader is of a Horace who is a slow and careful type. I feel the comma helps achieve this; hopefully it creates in the reader’s mind the idea that he pauses after entering and before starting to look about.

Fowler's Modern English Usage, third edition, R.W. Burchfield, ed. Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1996
p. 162 - '4. Where more than two words or phrases or groupings occur together in a sequence, a comma should precede the and.'

Originally Posted by garza

Fowler's Modern English Usage, third edition, R.W. Burchfield, ed. Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1996
p. 162 - '4. Where more than two words or phrases or groupings occur together in a sequence, a comma should precede the and.'

What I was going to say. It's called the "Oxford comma". Several authors (most of which write in Commonwealth English) still don't use it. I guess it's become a matter of taste. I swear by it.

As for your question, OX. I can't remember telling you anything about commas, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. However, either #1 or #2 will work.

Originally Posted by Sam W

As for your question, OX. I can't remember telling you anything about commas, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. However, either #1 or #2 will work.

Originally Posted by Sam W


"He looked up, scowling as Howard approached."

And did you see Baron's comment about #2?

As Horace approached he looked up and scowled. I'd put a comma after entered.

Sorry, I meant #3, OX.

Now if Ilasir happens across your post, he's really going to muddy the water, by saying you're about 70% short.

A severe-looking and cadaverous man--in a waistcoat, with eyeshade, and sleeve garters--sat at a high desk, writing in a ledger. He looked up and scowled as Horace approached.

That's how I'd punctuate the sentence. Too many pauses and you slow the tempo down. IMO.

Is his scowl intended to be distaste at what he's written in the ledger or distaste at the sight of Horace?

#1 implies to me that he doesn't like Horace very much, though there's some ambiguity and I'm not sure that's the meaning. For that intended meaning, to add clarity, you might try:

He looked up and scowled when he saw Horace approach.

or possibly

He looked up, scowling when he saw Horace approach.

#3 implies to me that he either doesn't like what he's written or a general unhappiness, though seems to me slightly awkward. Too many pauses. For that intended meaning, I'd prefer:

Scowling, he looked up as Horace approached.

Ultimately, choose the best structure to convey the meaning you want to reveal. Do you even want the reader to know why the man is scowling? You might even want it to be ambiguous. In fact, you might even want to spell out the ambiguity. "When Horace approached, the man looked up, scowling. Horace wondered whether it was him or whatever was on that paper that the man found distasteful." It's all a matter of the intent you want to convey.

#2 and 4, Baron nailed.

Naturally, there are many ways to write the sentence.

Charlie

Bringing it up again for other users who have an issue with the comma.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

Now if Ilasir happens across your post, he's really going to muddy the water, by saying you're about 70% short.

How would he know, can he see him?

Horace found the building easily, he entered and gazed about, seeking for someone to assist him.

A severe-looking, cadaverous man wearing a waistcoat, an eyeshade and sleeve garters sat at a high desk writing in a ledger. He looked up and scowled as Horace approached.