Worst Fantasy cliches - Page 2 - Writers Forum

darthwader · 01-31-2006, 06:53 AM

The biggest cliche I think exists in the fantasy genre is the idea that these events have to happen in the past or in some forgotten Earth. While it is not unheard of, I would like to see more present-day and future-based fantasies.

Although if I had to pick something a little more specific, I'd say the charater who has a secret power that gets revealed at the endof the book. It's a cheat way to end things.

slayerofangels · 01-31-2006, 07:07 AM

I dunno, I started off with the gems cliche, but now I'm thinking of changing those into control chips for a computer system...

jetzeppelin · 01-31-2006, 09:44 PM

A fantasy story with 27 different races. Come on, everyone has to have freakin' dwarves and trolls and elves. Be original.

MariusBonaparte · 02-01-2006, 12:28 AM

Yep. Hence, I won't even deal with any of the traditional races. They piss me off.

awford · 02-01-2006, 06:39 PM

I'd have to agree with the "7 Races of Fantasy" cliche. I drives me completely away from the fantasy genre, since it covers about 90% of the published stories these days. SF authors would be slaughtered if they reused races other than humans across story universes. A three-foot, stalky, bearded man that mines in the mountains is a dwarf, no matter what name you give it...

*sarcasm on*
Although, there is that race of pointy eared, logically thinking forest dwellers that have denounced emotions, and only use bows and arrows in combat. THAT's an original race, right? Oh yeah, plus they are immortal. *sarcasm off*

Talia_Brie · 02-01-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Do they absolutely fail though?

If by 'fail' you mean getting executed by the bad guy, then yes.

Dephere · 02-01-2006, 06:49 PM

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Do they absolutely fail though?By this I mean not only do the hero and all his comrades on the quest get killed, but there's even an epilogue that goes on to explain how the evil overlord conquers the hero's land, and exterminates all his people for them to never rise again. That's the sort of failure I had in mind. Is there a Fantasy novel like this?

Can you imagine trying to find a publisher/agent who'd take it on?

Yes, they completely fail, but I don't know about the epilogue thing because the series is still being written.

But some of the biggest Heroes die, leaving their line to a hopeless cause. As to the bad guys, they are currently holding the throne and fighting of (so far triumphantly) numerous attempts at usurpation.

It is hard sometimes though to judge Martin's characters as being good or bad, some are so damn in between...but I LOVE it!

I would definitly recommend it to any fantasy reader.

Chinaren · 02-03-2006, 01:26 AM

Good vs Evil.

The world, and hence presumably any other world, is generally shades of gray and Good fighting Evil has so been done.

bobwriter · 02-03-2006, 02:02 AM

In my early years I read a few fantasy 'epics' but my interest waned as I realized it was the same book written over and over, without even bothering to change the names to protect the innocent readers.

Like soap operas on TV and the evening news, you can miss them for months, tune back in and find nothing much has changed.

Fantasy to me represents a serialized money printer. Like romance novels and pulp westerns they generate lots of cash for writer and publisher but I can't imagine there is much satisfaction in the product. Sort of like getting Spam when what you really wanted was Black Forest Ham.

Gabrielle_Sinclair · 02-03-2006, 11:02 PM

um... the most horrible cliche i could think of.... is...hmm... thats a good one, it would REALLY have to be... some asshole who's all "I stand alone oh i'm so macho, you can't fight by my side cuz I'm MORE MACHO THAN YOU ARE!!!" and then he ends up having like 4 companions at his side, because he realises he needs them to go where hes going and they end up dying (oh how ironic) and he ends up living and hes like "and that is why I stand alone. No losses. No mourns." and he walks off with some uber-excalibur like weapon and he uses it for his own personal gain "fighting alone." OH MY GOD!! KILL ME NOW! EXECUTION-STYLE! RIGHT NOW!! I completely forgot what book i was reading (cuz it was so long ago) it was just freakin stupid. as for my charactor (in the second book, the sequil to Biography of a vampire 'still thinking up of a better title btw ><' that im FINALY WORKING ON) she is solitary. But she doesnt gain anything out of all that was going on, and she doesnt use anything for her own personal gain.

Black Riven · 02-04-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon woodhouse

If someone did write a Fantasy novel where the hero absolutely failed, would anyone want to read it?

Personally I really like it when main characters die, it makes everything else seem much more precious and real, since reality doesn't care who it kills, main character or not. So failing completely sounds like something I'd like to see.
Another idea is a main character the reader would hate, or disapprove of. I think it'll require a very different storytelling that what you usually see.

::Saint:: · 02-07-2006, 07:09 PM

I think there is a reason that Elves and Dwarves, etc, are so prolific in fantasy - they make great characters, if done with an original imagining of the race and not just regurgitating Tolkien's concepts.

There are Elves in my book, but the last thing I would ever do to my elves in make them into the blonde-haired, skinny-arse girly-faced pansies that are generally accepted to be Elves. Nor are they infinately wise and all of that. My elves are more akin to a sort of Samurai ideal - they are long-lived (though not immortal) and are excellent warriors.

Some may call me unoriginal for using elves, but I like them, and I'm the one writing my story, so they can all shut it!

I think the worst cliche for me, though, are the kind of elves I have described above - in a word: anemic. Hate that. I also hate the use of cardboard villains who are evil purely for evil's sake - not only is it cliche, but it is unrealistic. No one is born a villain - there are things that happen to certain people that send them down the dark path (in real life I mean). Villains are seldom well explained as to why they are villains, and what drives their villainy. As somebody said, people generally exist in shades of grey (though I do believe that right and wrong and good and evil are generally black and white - people are not able to be completely one or the other), so our villains can't just be villains for no reason.

Five Disgruntled Monkeys · 02-08-2006, 03:01 AM

Basically, I love the fantasy genre, but I hate every fantasy book I've ever read. Some big ones for me, possibly echoing what others have said:
1. Idealism. The world is perfect! Everyone is happy! All races accept all other races! I realize escapism can be a major goal for fantasy readers and writers, but when the only thing wrong with your world is the "looming darkness", it just feels infantile and unrealistic. On Earth, we've killed, enslaved, or belittled entires races because their skin was a different color, or because they had slightly different religious beliefs. How can two beings as wildly divergent as, say, a halfling and an elf meet without any sort of racial tension? I like a little grit in my fantasy world.
2. Stock races, stock concepts. I'd rather you call it an elf and make it unique than call it a X'ytrim Alpo'nufunga, and make it a Tolkien-elf in disguise. You can use cliched concepts, like elves and dwarves or Fire/Water/Earth/Air magic, but you need to put your own spin on it. Surprise your reader, or else don't use them at all.
3. Too epic. The villain is always the most evil being you can imagine, some one who wants to wipe out all of civilization for no adequately explored reason. The hero is always innocent, virtuous, and not significantly flawed in any way. The fate of the world always hangs in the balance. I would love to read a fantasy novel where the farmboy stays a farmboy, or the villain has a selfless reason for wanting to conquer the world.
4. Lack of internal continuity. This one is less of a cliche, and more of a flaw. When creating a fantasy story (and with it, a fantasy world), you need to have clearly defined rules to follow. Let's say you have a character that farts fireballs. Fine. But how does he fart fireballs? What allows him to fart fireballs? Can other people fart fireballs, or is he the only one? How does society react to a fireball-farter? You can have some of these questions remain a mystery to the character or the reader, but they sure as hell shouldn't be a mystery to you.
Fantasy worlds need a certain degree of realism. I know, I know, it's fantasy, so it doesn't have to be real. That's why I use the term "internal continuity"- things need to make sense within the confines of the fantasy world. This means that while you're allowed to have a fire-breathing dragon (a fantastic creature that could never exist in the real world), you shouldn't have said dragon do anything without a good, in-character reason.
5. "Textbook" Syndrome. Once again, this isn't so much of a cliche as it is a mistake I see quite often with young fantasy writers. You need to have a clearly defined world with its own history, laws and details, yes. But you don't have to, and shouldn't, share all of these details with your readers in the first chapter. It can be overwhelming, (not to mention a little boring), to start off with the history of the Third Kingdom of Wabberwicky, or whatever, or a lengthy description of the geography of the Provice of Wizzlewazzle. If you do this, it ends up being as exciting to read as your 8th grade world history textbook. For a fantasy piece to be interesting, the fantasy world needs to be discovered one little bit at a time. If you tell us all there is to know at the start, why should we read to the end?

Caolan · 02-08-2006, 04:55 AM

Nebular: First of all it's Rowan of Rin, not Rohan. And Rowan of Rin was written before Harry Potter.

Therren_Cragan · 02-08-2006, 07:58 PM

Basically its next to impossible to do anything truly and completely original these days because so much has been done. However that should not be a bane towards a person's creativity.

Now then, onto what I was really wanting to say. As for the whole good vs. evil thing and perhaps finding new ground by making the hero fail, that has also been done but its so rare to have that happen that its almost impossible to find it in anything other than a couple movies. Still, it makes for a good bit of story with the exception of one thing: if the hero fails completely and dies just as he's about to succeed, who would read the story again?

Im also writing a fantasy based story that features the good vs. evil aspect but with a bit of my own twist. The main character is an orphan child (and the screen name I use is the name of that character too) that has lived most of his life as a theif to get by. He changes his life when he joins an army in the capital city of the kingdom he lives in and fights in a war, yadda yadda, so on and so forth. In any case, the main character has good intentions, but he is very conflicted in the fact that he can turn into a monster that sort of resembles a half-dragon half-human hybrid. When he transforms like this he goes berserk and has a tendancy to attack anyone or anything in his way. This lack of control means that he has hurt and even killed some of his own friends, making the fact that he has to go up against an ultimate power that is many, many times greater than he is with no real support save for three of his closest friends all the more difficult. Is it cliche? Well, I'll leave that up for you all to debate.