Themes? - Writers Forum

Gnomeling · 07-30-2003, 07:42 PM

hey all

just a quick question here about theme. As i have said before i intend to right a series of novels (hopefully

) that are geared towards readers that are in the younger age group...like 9-16 sort of deal. Do you guys think that having a theme based around love and deception is to deep and grown up for this age group. Other reoccuring themes that i intend to use are good Vs. Evil, Power corrupts sort of stuff, but his one has left me wondering. I plan on making it a more simple version of the love and deception theme so it is easier to see. Any way...any input, opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Kurkurrage · 07-31-2003, 01:44 AM

If you're writing for a 9-16 audience, I say write it as you see fit and let the chips fall where they may. In my experience, kids and teenagers are voracious readers (ok, at least I was .. not sure 'bout the rest of my *ahem* mostly illiterate generation .. heh heh)

Love is a universal theme, but it's hard to work into a story without going into cliches and sappy emotional garbage. IMHO. If you're going to do love in a fantasy setting, one of the best ways is to set up a good friendship between two characters (or more) and let it grow into love towards the end. You come on too strong, you'll confuse and alienate the readers, especially if they're young. By going through the stages of friendship leading towards love, you'll give the readers a chance to see how the real world works and not give them any false impressions.

I'm sorry, but "love" doesn't grow on trees.

As for deception, that's a tricky one. If you're going to use it as a plot-mover, you have to be careful not to give people the idea that deception is a good, useful, everyday tool for living. It should only be used in extreme circumstances.
In the Harry Potter books, fr'instance, JK Rowling uses deception as a tool for the bad guys. It's acceptable for bad guys to lie, cheat, steal, and murder. Good guys only tell little white lies, and only when they absolutely have to. Heh.

Good vs. Evil is sooo overdone. Honestly. It's almost a given that in any fantasy, heck any FICTION novel you pick up there's going to be am Evil Wizard, a Criminal or some other 'evil' archetype that works against the status quo.
Classical views of good and evil are, quite frankly, boring beyond belief. If you're going to use this as an underlying concept of your stories, I strongly urge you to come up with some mighty interesting definitions of 'good' and 'evil'.

Some people might say that a man who steals a loaf of bread in order to survive is 'evil' because he didn't rely on the goodness of his fellow humans. By the same token, someone who gives bread to the disadvantaged might have an ulterior motive which makes them truly 'evil'. Goodness is a quality that Humans strive for waaaay too much.

I figure the bad guys should win at least SOMEtimes

I'd like to read some examples of how you plan to portray the main themes in your stories. I could then give you some more direct feedback.. Right now I'm just running off at the mouth

Kan Pei! -rx

Anonymous · 07-31-2003, 02:24 PM

I plan to use the them of love in mainly two different ways...One for good and one for evil. The Antagonist in my story, though i hate to say it but it gives away the whole sort of twist, is a very beutiful woman. A lot of my story focuses on spirits and the good and evil of that. Anyway, one of the ways that i intnd to use the theme of love is obviously love for good...Main character falls in love...the power of love, that sort of thing. Th other way is using love for evil. The antagonist, like isaid is a very beuatiful woman, she is a very powerful mage. No one has ever seen her directly so the world naturally assumes that they are pitted against an evil lord. This is kinda where i want to use deception. The antagonist, lets call her the Mistress of Evil, has ways of decieving those around her and her enemies. The main character is a gnome and in the the beginign of my story he is having dreams where an extremely beautiful woman is standing in front of him, not saying nething. The dream has other aspects but those aren't important right now. Anyhow...though these dreams Feldor, that's the characters name, come to believe himself to love this woman in his dreams. though he knows he cannot have her nor does she evn exist but he still feels an attachment to her. This complicates things because of his love for a certin girl that he has known for the most of his life. The twist though in the end is that the woman in his dreams is the Mistress of evil. She had done to Feldor what she had done to many before. she had made them see her in dreams and fall into a false love with her. Because of this, feldor, and many others that come to oppose her cannot bring themselve to harm her, for she is so beautiful and they believe that they love her.
So yeah...that's basically how i intend to use the theme and if this makes no sense whatsoever then please tell me...though this without the plot so it will sound kinda weird on it's own. So there ya go...any imput, advice,or opinions would be great thanks

Kurkurrage · 07-31-2003, 03:01 PM

Sounds alright.. I've seen that particular combination of ideas before, but that's ok -- I've read thousands of books in the 21 years I've been on Earth.

I highly suggest that you read at least "Omnivore" by Piers Anthony. The latter two books of the trilogy; "Orn" and "Ox" are entirely optional .. Just the first one will give you a pretty good idea of how to pull off this 'love' angle you're looking to use. Piers is an excellent author of fiction, and I grew up on a steady diet of his works (tales of Xanth, the Adept series, all the Mode books). Now I'm a hardcore poet .. go figure

I'd like to see a sample chapter, if you don't mind. I'd like to get an idea of your style, see how you pull off Gnome characters, etc.. No hurry .. I'm not exactly a busy guy, and I'm always glad to help people out when I can. I just feel more qualified to give my assistance when I see something concrete; but I do understand your motivations and see where you can take the story.

You'll go far, if you just stick with it and don't give up when the going gets rough. Get all the help and advice you can. Don't just listen to me .. Get second, third, fourth opinions

Gnomeling · 07-31-2003, 10:32 PM

I will definatly have to look into those books, thanks. As to writing a sample chapter, i am currently working on the first chapter and i hope to have it posted in the near future...when it finally is posted i would greatly appreciate anything you have to say on it, thanks.

Kitten Courna · 08-03-2003, 02:05 PM

URg....Piers Anthony drives me nuts, but I will admit to having read his series. Yes, he's a good author but argh!

I would suggest, in terms of reading, Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy. It's -supposed- to be for younger readers I believe, but it's fun enough to read as an older person, which helps show off the adaptability of the book.

Themes don't always have to be simplified for children. In fact, you'd be suprised what younger readers can grasp in a novel. The only thing that needs to be simplified is often the language. If a theme is truly universal, they will understand it just as well as an older reader, as long as it's done with the proper perspecctive. I would really suggest His Dark Materials for an example of this. I believe that you have a good idea and motivation, and you are certainly willing to work, so the odds are on your side.

-Kitten

Anonymous · 09-01-2003, 07:30 PM

Hi there, I'm gonna echo whats already been said with a few changes and some evidence. First off, I'm thirteen years old and I would like to say that the language can be very complex as long as its not boring. We young people have very short attention spans

Also, go ahead and make a complex story, it just makes it fun to puzzel out as long as the writing style is well done. thats just me though, as a hunble young unintelligent thirteen year old.

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