JosephB

This may be a lame topic to some of you. Here in Atlanta, not too long ago, there was a local public school board meeting with the biggest parent and student turn out ever. Not because of the curriculum, low test scores or overcrowding, or even banning Harry Potter from school libraries. They were there because they were against a proposal to require school uniforms.

The argument against has to do with self-expression; and requiring school uniforms can take away the student's sense of individuality and creativity.

My child wears a uniform and we think it's great. It's cheaper and a child doesn't have to worry about not having the latest styles or labels if his or her parents can't afford it. It's one less distraction. No issues with inappropriate, skimpy clothing. We don't waste time choosing outfits each day.

I feel like my child can express herself in many ways. And she can wear what she wants when she's not in school. I can see why the kids are against it, but the parents? And are the parents just acquiescing because the children are raising a stink?

We were discussing this at a party the other night and it got quite heated.

It seems in other countries, this isn't an issue. Maybe it just makes too much sense.

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SevenWritez

I wouldn't care if I had to wear a uniform, but I would prefer to wear my own style of choice - white basketball shorts and my dope ass white Ecko t-shirts.

The thing is, kids who think they're the shit want "indivdiuality," because they think their peers care. Parents will probably jump the bandwagon. I don't see the problems with uniforms, but if I had to choose, I'd go with my own clothing any day. There's no doubt that it woudl be beneficial to the children who can't afford the latest styles, but to those who don't work but have their mommy and daddy buy them Abercombie (however you spell it) it would seem totally gay and totally done by tools.

I don't know, I'm neutral on the subject. If my school suddenly handed me a uniform, I'd shrug and be fine with it. However, the women would have to wear skirts.

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BOURBON

My SO is a school-teacher so we have this lil'ol debate at home when it's raining outside and there's nothing on the TV. There is blood-letting and hair pulling. The homework debate is worse: I lost a tooth once. I believe I found it in his calf muscle.

I don't like school uniform. I agree with the argument about simplicity and cheapness. I agree with the argument concerning fashion...but

What I hate is state schools posturing to ape private schools to appeal to the vanity of upwardly mobile parents. Here in UK, it is difficult to get your kids into the decent state schools (we use nepotism) if you're out of district, and these schools become selective by the back-door.

Often, uniform becomes an elitsist statement in the community. The school then becomes over-proud of the uniform - which they see as representative of their school's success in said community. Kids get harassed for misdemeanours like wearing the wrong coloured socks and daring to wear the wrong hair ties.

What's worse is many parents reinforce this madness - because they enjoy boasting to their neighbours that their brat goes to the school in question, which is now top of the league table for exam achievement (the back door selectivity of intake has nothing to do with achievement of course. No nasty poor children with all their irritating social problems).

The moral of the kids in the school my SO is leaving this summer has gotten so low it's sad. Bright kids have to stay late to attend compulsory tie-tying classes. I wanted to fire-bomb the school, but my SO wouldn't let me. Boring SOB.

Ahem...

On balance I prefer dress code rather than uniform.

Malone

It's definitely something you have to start in elementary school. You can't let a kid dress how he wants for eight years then suddenly jump on them all the sudden and give them blue slacks and a sweater vest. And while you've listed the strong points for the pro-uniform argument, it seems like it's still masking the fact that all the children will be conforming and looking the same. It kind of creeps me out. Next maybe they'll start regulating hairstyles?

My junior year of high school they passed some rule that said everyone had to wear their shirts tucked in, apparently so it would be easier to spot handguns hidden in our waistbands (this was the Columbine era). It ended up that the guys would get forced to tuck them in, but never the girls, because they had different styles or some shit. So me and one of my friends filed a lawsuit against the school district for sexual discrimination as a joke (his mom works for a huge law firm in Buckhead and she helped us out with the technical stuff). It turned into a huge deal with people on the school board email veiled threats to us and stuff if we didn't drop it. Next year, no more tucked in shirts.

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JoannaMac

I don't know about this one. I see both sides of the argument. Personally, I had to wear a uniform all the way through school (most public and private schools in Australia wear them) and disliked it. I always had more trouble trying to find a clean uniform and socks everyday, than if I'd just been allowed to throw on a pair of jeans.

I always hated the fact that my school uniform enabled people to judge me and treat me accordingly. Because they could tell which school I went to, they could make an educated guess at where I lived, and what socio-economic back ground I most likely come from.

The issue of dressing inappropriately is big these days and a uniform deals with it well, but I don't like the idea of making everyone look the same either. The 'class' issues and snobbery that Bourbon talks about bug me too.

It doesn't matter if you're wearing a uniform or not, you can still tell very clearly the rich from the poor, so I don't buy the theory that a uniform is any kind of class equalizer.

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tristiano

sure, normal clothes distract kids and make them feel bad about themselves if they cant afford stylish clothing. this is why they should all wear uniforms.

also, if we let kids choose how they wear their hair, they will be distracted, and if they cant afford a hair cut they might feel bad about their hair not being stylish. therefore using the same uniform logic, we should require all boys to shave their heads and all girls to have their hair at precisely ten inches and dyed the exact same shade of brown.

children of different races might be distracting. black, asian, etc children may feel bad that they are not of the most common race in america, white. for this reason we should give everyone the thing michel jackson got so that we can all be white. using the uniform logic this would work perfectly.

and different heights? this will not due. shorter boys may feel bad about not being as tall as some of their peers. therefore all short people should be required to wear platform shoes.

and while we are making everyone look the same, lets force kids to wear veils.

oh, but dont bother forcing any clothing regulations on adults, they're actual humans you cant force them to do things like that.

the military puts all in uniforms and shaves heads to lower individuality and pride. this is so that they will better take orders. works for them, use it in school. dont worry the government owns them, so like children theyre not human either.


i hope you see my sarcasm.

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Malone

In the years I've heard about and read about the uniform debate, that issue was never brought up. That's a really good point I totally failed to consider. I guess I thought they would all just be nation-wide same color/design uniforms. I didn't realize they could be used to identify the inner-city schools from the middle class ones. That's an extremely valid argument against.

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JosephB

That's never come up as an argument that I've heard. It's been all about free expression. also, most uniforms around here are very casual. Polo-style shirts. Khakis. No ties or jackets.


I would imagine each county -- which is how our school systems are set up, would have it's own uniform. There are a wide variety of income levels within each county. So I'm not sure how that would matter.

Anyway, you get picked up after school or ride the bus home and change. So unless your mum stops at the grocery or something, your really aren't parading around in your uniform.

I see it. But it really isn't good sarcasm. Sorry.

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tristiano

sorry if you didn't like it, thanks for your opinion. do you not see my logic, disagree, or simply ignore it due to the fact that you like the effect school uniforms have had in your personal experience? "your post is invalid" is one of those I'm-right-you're-wrong immature arguments, i think you can do better.

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lisajane

In Australia most public schools - primary and secondary - have to wear uniforms. My school also regulated hair styles (girls hair had to be tied up if below the collar, hair could not be dyed, boys' haircuts could not be shorter than a number 2, and so forth).

Though I went to a private school, I think it was easier to wear the uniform, because it solved the problem of picking out what to wear every day (if work offered uniforms, I'd be all for it for the above reason).

Plus if kids are let to wear whatever they want, it'll probably cause more bullying from the rich kids to the poorer kids, judging on what they wear.

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Malone

Yeah, those damn "rich" kids, always bullying people over...clothes.

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SevenWritez

Bah, rich kids are pussies. Just learn to fight and fuck them up.

__________________
As long as some suffer, the river flows forever
As long as there is pain, the river flows forever
As strong as a smile can be, the river will flow forever
As long as you are with me, we'll ride the river together

-Tupac Shakur

JosephB

I wouldn't say "bullying" is the problem, so much as some kids looking down on others who can't afford designer labels and 100.00 Nike shoes. Kids can be cliquish and mean.

__________________
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
-- Albert Einstein

"I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."
-- Flannery O'Connor

tristiano

why sink to their level? is watching them get a blond trophy wife and living in suburbia miserable trying to be someone else not enough?

preppies... they're happy now, if only they knew it wouldn't last.

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Straylight

I see you've happily bought into the myth that rich and successful people with hot wives are miserable. Good for you... denial is a fantastic balm to sooth your future depression.

On the topic at hand... given the laughable way kids these days "dress" themselves in the name of self-expression or whatever garbage their ultra-lib teachers are feeding them, it's practically a crime not to make them wear uniforms. Sadly, they've been drinking the Kool-Aid since kindergarten about how they should express themselves and been given positive strokes for the most aberrant rubbish, so these kids are actually suffering under the delusion that anyone cares what they're trying to "say".

The lesson to be learned is that "self-expression" is only validation-worthy when the Self actually has something useful, interesting or entertaining to Express.

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