aspiretowrite

It seems that a debate between myself and JosephB has escalated into a full blown argument about Tax Breaks. So that I can understand it better and get a general feel about what taxes people pay in other parts of the globe. So I'll start (this is per annum)

Income Tax: £2,676
National Insurance: £1,464
Council Tax £1,315
Road Tax £135
Fuel Tax - haven't a clue. Fuel is current £1.20 per litre
Alchohol Tax - haven't a clue
VAT (EU Value Added Tax) on purchases 17.5% per transaction
Have to pay for recycling green waste. So far have spent £125

This is the gist of it anyway. My salary is £19,000 so net I take home around £13,285 after all that tax. Then there is food shopping, fuel, electricity etc etc. don't get me wrong I am by no means poor, but I won't get rich on this money.

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Mr President. If a child can buy pornography for five dollars on any street corner, isn't that too high a price to pay for free speach?

No but I do think five dollars is too high a price to pay for pornography.

spider8

What a lot of people forget is that ALL your gross wage goes to the chancellor (Alistair Darling). If you go to a shop and spend twenty quid, a portion of that goes to the shopkeepers' wage which he pays taxes on and spends in other shops. Then you buy fuel for your car of which 87% ( or77, not sure) goes to Darling and the rest goes to wages or other things that are taxed. As you say; V.A.T. is 17.5% but whats left will all still be going to Mr Darling- one way or the other. I think Britain has a turnover of 150Billion pounds, so that's what he has to play with, well that ...and what he borrows.

Neo

I pay tax on what I buy. None others. I do not need to - I don't work. Simple. My taxes are covered by my benefits.

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Non Serviam

According to my tax returns and a fudge of what I pay in indirect taxation, approximately 43% of my salary is taken in tax. This includes some fudging because of the technicalities of the way my pension payments are tax-deductible but the pension payments are taxed within the fund.

However, that's not the whole story because for anyone in my position (UK homeowner), there's significantly more income than just your salary. My property is growing in value (or at least, has grown in value significantly in the past) and that substantial growth in my net worth is not taxed in any way at any time after purchase--you can sell your property completely tax-free provided it's your main residence at the time of sale. (Buyers pay a stamp duty which varies but in my area might typically be ~3% of the property purchase price).

If I figured my income as including the appreciation in property value, then for the past ten years I've actually paid about 32% of my total income in tax.

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How many of you believe in psychokinesis? Raise my hand.

The Hack

Homer: Let the bears pay the bear tax; I pay the Homer tax.

Lisa: Dad, that's the homeowner's tax.

Homer: Well, I'm still outraged.


Speaking only from the perspective of a US taxpayer, I think most people would be surprised if they actually looked at their paystubs and their tax returns. Odds are, they are paying more in payroll taxes (FICA) than they are in income taxes. I don't think most people realize this.

Malone

I think the original argument was about tax breaks for the higher income citizens. I had a discussion with my dad a few years ago, and he ends up paying over 200k a year in taxes. He said he saw no kind of significant tax cut or benefit from Bush being in powofer.

I ran my own business for awhile, and just took cash and checks and never claimed anything, so that was straight money. Same thing with cocaine dealing. When I worked as a chef, about 35 percent of my check went to taxes. I'm a single white male with no dependents.

The income tax is illegal and should be abolished.

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There Is A Policeman Inside All Our Heads: He Must Be Destroyed


Malone's Mind

The Hack

There were certainly big tax cuts under Bush. Those tax cuts lowered the taxes of the poor and the wealthy, but not the middle class. Nearly 50% of the people in the US pay no income tax - not because they're hiding their income - but because they don't have enough income to be subject to the income tax.

The amount of money required to owe income tax went way up as a result of the 2001 Tax Act. This removed the income tax burden from many lower income and lower-middle class people. The 2001 Act also reduced the top rate from 39.6% to 35%, and lowered the rate of tax on capital gains - this reduced the burden on the wealthy. Who didn't see any income tax breaks? The middle class.

I'm curious, why do you think the income tax is illegal? Bad policy? Maybe, but illegal?

And you were paying 35% taxes as a chef? That seems a bit high. If you add my federal income tax, my state income tax and my FICA (Social Security and Medicare), it totals somewhere around 17% of my wages. My wages are well in excess of the average US wage earner (not bragging, just putting the numbers into perspective).

Edit: thinking about it, that 17% is a little misleading because of a few things: (1) there are 5 people in my household; (2) I contribute about 10% of my wage to a 401(k) plan, which is not subject to income tax (but is subject to FICA); (3) I pay pre-tax dollars for health insurance premiums for a family policy...

smilinghelps

This whole thread has me wondering about my own tax costs. I have to look up my returns from this past year for legal issues, so I'll look into it. As a single parent who is still legally married, I do get tax breaks but some I don't qualify for because I "make too much" HA!. I make a somewhat reasonable salary but it's barely enough to scrape by on. Once my taxes are paid, what's left barely covers my rent, electric and phone bill. If I didn't have a side business, I'd be in big trouble. That pays my insurance, CC, daughter's health insurance, cable, gas and food.

I barely qualify for the Earned Income Credit, I'm head of household, qualify for 2 dependents and I rent so there's no property tax--but no credit either and since I run my own business out of my house I have a bunch of deductions with that.

At the end of the day it boils down to having to work 6 days a week, 10 hours a day just to make ends meet, borrowing money from a credit line in an emergency and hoping that my tax return is enough to pay off the increased debt with enough left over for a one week away at the beach.

Living the high life, right?

Don't be jealous.

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"I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
E. B. White

The Hack

Mmmm...High Life...now I'm thirsty.

Malone

Maybe 25 percent was the average. It may have just seemed like more to me. I know that if I made $1000 on my weekly paycheck, after state and federal taxes, I'd probably go home with around 750 or 800.

And the federal income tax is illegal in every way. The constitution specifically states that taxing a citizen's wages is illegal. It is considered an exchange, work for money. The IRS knows this. They've been asked a thousand times and all they can say is "we need to tax you." About a dozen people have fought the issue in court and won. The juries all said that the law was crystal clear - federal income tax is illegal. You do not have to pay them. I promise you it's true. Research it a little if you would like. I still advise paying them, though. The government will do everything they can to ruin your life if you challenge them.
We actually had a debate on these forums a few months ago on the issue, but barely anyone took part. It's one of those things people don't want to know.

There's a few documentaries about it. I'll try to find one that is particularly good. By the way, IRS workers who find this out often stop paying their own taxes and have even quit the agency in numbers over the issue. Yet another bit of proof toward our media's corruption. You'd expect to have heard something about the government stealing from you, wouldn't you?

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There Is A Policeman Inside All Our Heads: He Must Be Destroyed


Malone's Mind

The Hack

Please provide a citation for this. Aside from writing, constitutional law is a hobby of mine. I am not familiar with the specific provision that states that taxing a citizen's wages is illegal.

Point of clarification - no jury, in any case, in the history of the United States has ever made a determination about what the law says. Juries determine facts, Judges determine law. There have been many people avoid criminal prosecution for tax fraud because the government failed to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the person intended to comit fraud (fraud is a crime which requires the perpetrator to intentionally break the law). No person has ever entered a court of law in the US (since the passage of the 16th Amendment) and won on an argument that the income tax was illegal or unconstitutional - that is a fact.

Malone

I don't agree with the 9/11 stuff he ends up going on about, but the income tax part is 100% true.

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There Is A Policeman Inside All Our Heads: He Must Be Destroyed


Malone's Mind

Malone

Sorry for the cut and past, but:

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There Is A Policeman Inside All Our Heads: He Must Be Destroyed


Malone's Mind

The Hack

We The People and Bob Schultz is a scam:

Quatloos! • View topic - Schulz, Robert (civil injunction case)

The Hack

This right here shows the lack of knowledge as to legal matters by this guy. There is no 5th Amendment Right as to civil matters. Taxes are civil matters - unless you are charged with a tax related crime, but that is not what he is talking about here. These scam artists prey on the fact that most people do not know the difference between criminal tax cases and civil tax cases.