alanmt

My Canadian marriage to another guy is now legally recognized in California.

"In contrast to earlier times, our state now recognizes that an individual's capacity to establish a loving and long-term committed relationship with another person and responsibly to care for and raise children does not depend upon the individual's sexual orientation, and, more generally, that an individual's sexual orientation - like a person's race or gender - does not constitute a legitimate basis upon which to deny or withhold legal rights,"

Chief Justice Ron George, writing for the 4-3 majority on the mostly Republican appointed court.

Thoughts and opinions?

For the record, I do recognize that some Americans have personal religious beliefs that homosexuality is immoral and I believe that they are entitled to those beliefs. However, in a secular nation which guarantees freedom of religion, public policy and individual liberty should not be based on or limited by any set of religious beliefs, whether minority or majority. If the government chooses to recognize the social institution of marriage, then it has a duty under our constitution to treat everyone equally, and to extend the governmentally imposed benefits and burdens of marriage on gay and straight people equally.

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Modest Me

Yayness!

Although I do believe that homosexuality is immoral (don't attack me- i never attack you), I think its a violation of separation of church and state to not allow them to be married.

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Sam Winchester

Please, MM, don't turn this into a religious thread. I know you mean well, but it seems every thread you post in has some allusion to the church.

Congrats to you, Alan.

Sam.

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Just Jim

Congrats to you and yours, Alan.

Things do change, even if very slowly.

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Ilasir Maroa

Good for you alan.

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PageOfCups

Yay ^.^ That's one more state I won't boycot when I finally get around to visiting America. Now that ruling just needs to be roled out to the parts of the country that are still living in the dark ages ^.^

Modest Me

I wasn't gonna, Sam!
Gosh, can't I tell my freakin' opinion without being attacked.

HE was the one who brought up religion in the first place.
I was just agreeing with Alan.

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alanmt

she was, and I thanked her for it.

but this really won't be much of a debate thread if we are all in agreement!

and in anticipation: Sorry, JosephB for bringing up this topic again!

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Non Serviam

If California gave up the death penalty, its laws would be quite civilised.

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Sam Winchester

Melodramatic much, MM? I wasn't attacking you. I was making a statement. You seem to believe that religion holds the answer to every question. I admire you for that, I do, but there are things that religion cannot solve or be part of.

Sam.

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Modest Me

Maybe I was a little dramatic.. But I've been told "keep religion out of this" a million times and I just get sick of it.. Sorry for jumping down your throat, Sam.

But this subject does have a little bit to do with religion, because the Christian religion says that homosexuality is immoral and THAT is what has lead to the governments hesitation to make it legal for them to marry now.
But like Alan said- I think we can all agree on the that, so theres no debate there.

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Swamp Thing

Frankly, I think MM has every right to bring religion into this. Marriage is a union before God.

That said, how did government get involved in the first place, other than to tax married people extra?

If a church wants to sanctify a union between people of the same sex, that's fine by me. Though I won't join that church. But get the government out of it. Any one wanting a civil union can call their local Unitarians, it's the next best thing.

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Truth-Teller

I only have pity for you alanmt.

Homosexuality is a sin, by the biblical standard, and it's best if you realize that God does not approve of any of our sinful nature.

Non Serviam

Yeah, I agree: should be called civil union. That's a more apt description of my own partnership too (which is heterosexual but profoundly atheist in character), and I'd like the option to cut the word "marriage" completely for those of us who feel its religious overtones are objectionable.

There are tax benefits to marriage, so government needs to record it. And I see good reasons why children under 16 shouldn't be permitted to marry, so government needs to regulate it as well--at least to a certain extent.

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Swamp Thing

It's a sin according to some religions. Even many Christian branches have reconsidered that despite the obvious biblical arguments.

TT shouldn't you be working on your writing? I'm looking forward to your submission at the next LM challenge. I'm rooting for you! *breaks out pom poms*

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