The Backward OX

There’s been a lot of emotion spilled in this forum recently about cruelty to humans.

Sod humans. They can look after themselves. How about cruelty to animals? Where do you stand on that?

I’ll tell you where I stand. If you believe cruelty to animals is acceptable, if for example you think a rodeo is good clean fun, you had better hope and pray I never find out who you really are and where you really live. In the meantime I’ll content myself with making your presence on this site as miserable as I can without getting myself banned.

papertears

I really love animals and find myself sympathetic to them. I don't understand the need to be cruel to them. I grew up in New Mexico where cock fighting wasn't illegal until last year. I don't know if they've even banned dog fighting yet.

When I was 10 there was a group of guys down the street that had a couple of Rotweillers. They would go get the male chicks that were free from the hatchery and feed them to the puppies. As they got older, they started feeding them kittens. They bragged about this at school. One of the boys was in my grade, the other was in highschool.

I came home one day to find the locked gate to our back yard broken open and our female cat in 5 pieces. While I was running to call my parents the sirens started down our street. One of the dogs had a 3 year old toddler from 2 houses down in its mouth. I watched the cops/sheriff free the kid and shoot the dog about 10 times. One of them had out a f*cking assault rifle--I guess the first 5 shots to its face didn't kill it. At age 10 I slept in my parents bed that night.

I'm not sure what part of that f*cked me up worse. It was all around bad, and I don't blame ANY of the animals. The cops told my parents that our cats shouldn't be in our yard and no one paid for our gate let alone apologized. The parents of the toddle got in trouble for negligence. (The mother was on the porch with the kid when the dog came on the grass according to two neighbors!) The other dog was allowed to stay even though the neighborhood protested. That toddler ended up needing reconstructive surgery to the face and his hands too.

I have friends with two Rotweillers that are completely totally passive. The only thing dangerous about them is that they fart. I have stayed at the house with them several times and those dogs run and hide when the doorbell rings.

I keep my cats inside now. Its horrid, because they love to be outside. They stare out the window all day. I have a leash thing that I'll take them out on but I wouldn't even let them in the yard at my parents house in the middle of nowhere anymore. People do horrible stuff to animals. In the paper they warn you not to leave your dog in the yard anymore because people drop poisoned food over the fence.

The city of Aurora has this huge prarie dog vacuum truck that they use to vacuum those little critters out their holes. They claim this is humane and they do it all the time. Those prarie dogs are on the endagered list. I would think there is a nicer way to kill something than to suck it out of its house. I hate sitting there in traffic watching them suck them out the ground. What sick person came up with a cute-thing-vacuum?

Beats the heck out of me why people do stuff. I hit a deer to avoid killing everyone in the vehicle and needed two years of therapy.

Malone

I'm definitely against animal cruelty. When I was little, I wanted to go to Africa and kill poachers. Same thing with the seals. I've had dogs and cats around me my whole life, and they were always family - not pets. I hate people who put their animals in dog shows and shit like that.
I have lots of friends who have been to bullfights and they like it. I personally wouldn't want to go to one. I don't understand why people still enjoy that.
I've been to a dogfight, lots of the black people around here fight dogs, and it made me sick. Most of them treat the dogs just like...a lawnmower(?), but some actually love the dogs, which I don't understand. They normally fight the dogs for a max four or five times then retire them as "Grand Champions" or some crazy title like that. This guy I knew loved his dog, and fought it one last time (again, not sure how you can love the dog and do that) and the dog died. It really, really upset him, but I couldn't feel much sympathy.
I used to hunt when I was little, until I realized how stupid it was to have a $900 dollar rifle with a super magnified scope, sit up and a tree, and blast a deer. Not much "sport" in that. I'm not against hunting in general, though. Like say I took on a polar bear with a knife and a pistol. That would be more fair (not really for me) and a challenge that would be something to do. I had a friend drop out of his deer stand onto a deer with just a knife, planning on stabbing it, and he sprained his ankle and the deer beat the living shit out of him. Like really, really kicked his ass. He was all messed up for a couple weeks.
I hate dog and horse racing. I have two greyhounds that I adopted after they were retired. The assholes just kill all the dogs when they get too old if no one adopts them. Pisses me off.
What's wrong with the rodeo? I know they squeeze the bulls' nuts, but it seems like everyone gives out their fair share of damage there. I might need to be enlightened on the subject.
When I was young, I had a kitten. This really mean Chow that was always fighting all the neighborhood dogs (including mine) and attacking the kids came into my backyard and killed the cat. I ran out and tried to stop it, but the fucker wouldn't let go. So I went back inside and got a .308 and blasted a hole through the dog. The cat ended up dying. Obviously the Chow did too. That's the worst thing I've ever done to an animal (besides deer and hog hunting), and it seemed fair enough - nature taking its course.

But after that long ramble (and I'm sure I'll be back to comment on this thread later) I hold other animals' lives to the same degree as humans. We're just a slightly more conscious animal. I don't even kill bugs anymore if I can help it. I've showered for three days in a row with a little brown spider staring at me from the curtain. I just didn't see a reason to squish him.
I'd still appreciate it if you made my life a living hell, though.

Malone

I hate PETA by the way. The people running it are out of their minds nuts. I would dare to guess that 98% of the people who donate to PETA have no idea what a horrible organization they're supporting.

The Backward OX

Hey Malone have a look at Rodeo Cruelty

Malone

Well that's no good. So I guess it boils down to: if the rodeo is just cowboys riding bulls or horses, it's okay, but when they shock animals or abuse them it's bad. Fair enough.

EDIT: Let me amend that. Break a horse on a farm or ranch is okay if they buck the cowboy around and put him through the reigns. Jumping on a bull to ride is okay. Spurring and beating an animal to anger just to ride it is bad.

buyjupiter03

Animal cruelty is BAD! And I'd consider trying to force your pet into a vegan diet cruelty to animals.

I've always been surrounded by multiple cats and at least one dog. My family has an invisible sign on the lawn saying "We are suckers and we'll adopt anything". Most of our animals have adopted us, wandering up to our porch and sometimes into the house. When we do "foster" anything, we've usually ended up adopting the animal.

Back in my young(er) and stupid days I went to a rodeo. I did not enjoy myself, and I couldn't bear to watch what was going on. I speak up nowadays when someone says they're going to one. I let them know that for the most part it's inhumane, and ask how they would feel under the same treatment.

I've never been a fan of sports hunting. One of my grade school teachers hunted and bragged to our class about how many deer he'd bagged. I always gave him hell, because he was always after a trophy. If you are hunting to feed your family (and it's the only way you can, or it's a big part of your culture) then that's a different matter.

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JoannaMac

Rich countries screw poor ones and billions of people, despite their best efforts, struggle to look after themselves. Saying "Sod them" isn't useful.

And I don't think it's a case of 'either/or' Ox. Cruelty to animals and people is totally unacceptable.

I think it's also a pity that most people don't think cruelty to animals extends to those that end up on our dinner plates.

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JosephB

I love animals, especially the tasty ones. And the ones that provide us with lovely warm coats and hours of entertainment.

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Matthatter

Wow, I've never heard anyone say anything like this before.

Not only did you alleviate any guilt you may have had from needlessly supporting animal cruelty, but you also very hilariously pointed out that, "hey people, this kind of stuff is totally accepted, so stop being all wierd!"

You're sooooo all american, and witty, and intelligent. Go you.

JosephB

Yes, I know. But I always enjoy hearing it, so thanks.

Apparently, you've never heard anyone crack joke before either. Grant it, it's not Jerry Seinfeld, but come on. I could add a smiley, but I'd rather see someone like you overreact and restate the obvious.

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"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
-- Albert Einstein

"I am really only interested in a fiction of miracles."
-- Flannery O'Connor

JoannaMac

I know sarcasm doesn't come across sometimes, but seriously, I would have thought Joseph's was obvious.

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Ungood

Personally I am against animal abuse:

I mean when you think about it every 9 seconds a dog is put down in a kennel (Which means by the time I finish writing this post which is roughly 12 dogs have killed for no other reason other then people are stupid and abusive) And cat's don't have it any better.

The disgusting way people treat animal life is beyond reasonable. Anyway My wife and I are advocates for Pit Bull rights and think BSL is Bullshit Legislation and knee jerk reactions to stupid people who don't know the facts.

Anyway.

Ummm Yah, when I see what Humans do to the other animals that inhabit this planet and what they do to the planet itself... sod 'em.

I think this planet can afford to loose a few million humans. Maybe knocking a billion or two off the total population won't hurt none when you really think about it.

But then again when you take a close look at it, we could safely loose about 6.3 billion humans and the planet as a whole would be better off for it.

Ungood.

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seigfried007

how to start on this one... carefully, I suppose given tempers flare more on 'animal rights' than perhaps anywhere else....

Firstly, I see no problem with hunting as under-hunting a species when you've wiped out healthy numbers of major predators is a wrose circumstance for the animals. Hunting is a quick death and generally less painful than getting ripped apart by coyotes, wild dogs, wolves, puma or being hit by an automobile (who won't stop to finish you off but will keep driving if the car can still move). If you've ever seen an animal torn apart by another, it's far more messy and horrible than a simple bullet through the heart or brainpan (even several).

Hog and deer hunting are necessities. Both animals are dangerous. Both destroy crops and provide competition (and wounds) to livestock, which drives up the cost of food. Both get hit by motor vehicles and raise insurance premiums. Both are dangerous when threatened or--especially in the case of deer--when in rut (or escaping a rutting buck). Both carry parasites and frequently diseases in their own right and many of these parasites and diseases are communicable to humans and livestock (and once you've known people infected with Lyme disease, it changes things).

And deer will walk into cars. They will jump onto and into them from seemingly nowhere. Not only this, but they will actually charge a vehicle. I've seen it and I have it reliably that it's not uncommon in the fall for bucks to charge evertyhing from semis to Metros. They also maim each other, hump lawn ornaments (and cows even).

Minks--those weasels in coats--are also dangerous and nasty-tempered creatures that kill poultry off in the thousands and won't think twice about killing flamingoes either. I went to a zoo once that lost seven flamingoes in one night from minks. Kill them all and I won't care except then we'd have to find something else to eat all the damned mice (which are also disease-riddled, crop-pinching nasty creatures). However, minks on farms don't have that lovely mouse-killing side-effect, so I don't mind them being turned into coats even if I'm not into the fur thing and hope they go humanely (at least quickly).

Chickens are some of the dumbest creatures on Earth. They'll kill each other--brutally--if you don't stop them, so I really don't see a reason to get up in arms about their treatment. Tend them and tell me I'm wrong. Make it as quick and painless as possible, certainly--just like it should be done with any creature--but don't cry over the stupid things. My in-laws used to keep chickens for eggs and had to kill off roosters because the stpid thins would kill each other and the chicks and the chickens if they weren't culled off--they'd also blind each other and the empty eye sockets would get horribly infected, etc. And, of course, they'd pick on the nicest ones first.

Domestic turkeys are equally dumb if not more so. They will stand on each other's heads to get something to drink and aren't smart enough to figure out that the wiggling under their feet is another turkey and that they ought to move. Lots of turkeys die on farms every year from even unintentional turkey-on-turkey violence like that. Others get killed by all those pretty minks and foxes and wolves and coyotes and dogs and feral cats... And building a fence around the damn turkeys won't keep any of those creatures out of the pen.

Wild turkeys, however, are really friggin neat creatures and I don't see a point in shooting them unless it's a mercy killing or the critter's being beligerant to a small child/pet, etc.

Since when were prairie dogs endangered? Possibly once small subspecies, but prairie dogs as a whole are flourishing. the niche of giant pothole-digging creature isn't vacant by any stretch. Moles and prarie dogs are impossible to kill in such numbers because they breed so fast and are so hard to get ahold of. Put a bullet to a animal that's tripped in a prarie dog tunnel and tell me the numerous little bastards ought to be everywhere.

Horses, cattle, bison, deer, pronghorn and people all trip when walking over those tunnels--and horses and cattle frequently can't even make it home to let their owners know they're injured and instead die slowly or linger in great pain until someone drives out, finds them and often has to shoot them (because sometimes the animal's in too much pain to manage effectively, is thrashing around and making its injuries worse, and sedatives/vets aren't on hand).

I've never been to a rodeo but I odn't think an animal should ever be purposefully pissed off for any reason--it's just rude. Even dumb animals should be treated with a measure of respect--Kill it quickly and as painlessly as possible, make sure as much of it is used as possible and don't mock its sacrifice. But don't gloat or torture or ridicule or laugh at the poor thing because it's just rude and certainly not a good habit to get into.

Malone, I've done the same thing with spiders. Unless they're really big, really poisonous or near my kids, I leave them be because they're probably subsisting on something else I don't want in my house. However, we have black widows and fire ants on the property and I won't suffer either to live but I do at least kill them in the most effective and fast way possible. Can't stand the things because my children are small (which means the spiders could kill them) and they don't understand not stepping on ants (and you don't even need to step on the mound to excite those things--they come after you). Ii had to pick hundreds of fire ants off my daughter after she'd tripped in the yard and she was covered in blisters.

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lin

I find it best to fuck them before skinning off their fur and eating them. Cruelty is not cool, however.

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