Is suicide selfish? - Writers Forum

Ellen-the-great · 04-26-2008, 02:27 AM

i had a nice and juicy rant all written up but then my computer gave out and i couldn't be bothered typing it again. any how, opinions? i'll wait till some one pisses me off enough before i start ranting again

Truth-Teller · 04-26-2008, 04:56 AM

Suicide is not only selfish, but it is also self-murder.

Gate · 04-26-2008, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Is suicide selfish?

I know of no act as selfish as suicide.
It shuts the door forever on those who may have had something to say about it.
It is the ultimate act of contempt for everyone else.
Suicide yells like some spoiled brat : Poor me, I can't take it anymore. boo hoo

not to be confused with Euthanasia.....Thats another matter all together
suicide is a solitary act, whereas euthanasia is usually associated with a illness -terminal...and it is communicated to loved ones first ...open for debate

Sam Winchester · 04-26-2008, 06:45 AM

I'd say it is selfish, but what you have to understand is that some people live with chronic depression every day. Think of your worst day ever, and that would be a good day for someone with depression. Sometimes suicide is the only way out for people like that. They can't see a light at the end of the tunnel. It is selfish, but sometimes they have no other option.

Sam.

Tiamat10 · 04-26-2008, 07:20 AM

Selfish? Well yeah, but I could argue that everything a person does is selfish. An act of charity for another person, for example, is selfish because at heart the reason you do it is because it makes you feel better about yourself in some way. I actually think it's hypocritical to a degree to say that you do anything that not in some way self-motivated.

What makes a suicide so much more selfish than, say, hogging all the mashed potatoes at the dinner table?

Stealing all the mashed potatoes just because you don't want anyone else to have any--i.e., thwarting other people on purpose--is actually a more selfish act (as far intent goes) than ending your own life because you're so utterly depressed you just can't take it anymore. Generally speaking, suicides aren't aimed at hurting other people. They're about ending a person's pain the only way he/she knew how. Stealing all the mashed potatoes and refusing to share is about greed and no caring if they go hungry. See? Intent.

I'm not arguing that people should commit suicide any old time they feel like it, but what gives you the right to judge them for it? You're just as guilty as they are for being selfish at some point.

chimchimski · 04-26-2008, 07:31 AM

Let me rant...is suicide selfish..yes, yes it is!
Will you ever convince the person who has fallen so far from any realistic reasoning...Not Always! Because that is the point....they have lost the ability to think rationally and with reason. They have to want to work it out...if it is even possible before they hit that point when nothing else matters but disappearing from the pain of life and all their fuck ups and everything that has ever gone wrong against them. You see for me, I thought that my family...my friends...would seriously be better off if they didn't have to even look at me. No amount of crying, begging, pleading, worked...I was trapped in my own pain and hopelessness.

It's a terrible cycle, pain breeds hopelessness, hopelessness breeds pain..I know, I was there on several occasions. You should be careful how you approach this subject on this thread...as a survivor of suicidal thoughts and attempts I am telling you guys know that there are guests and possibly some members who'll take your words to heart! Be mindful of them, please! You never know a person's story...

If any of you are interested, there is a good movie you can watch concerning this topic..."Good Night Mother" I think it very realistic about how certain people become suicidal.

Malone · 04-26-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Selfish? Well yeah, but I could argue that everything a person does is selfish.

Bingo.

Unless you've sat with your neck in a noose or a gun in your mouth, I don't think you're qualified to debate this with any real legitimacy. I've known father's who killed themselves and left behind children, and while it sucks for the kids and is definitely not the right thing for a parent to do, I can totally understand why they did it.

rumpole40k · 04-26-2008, 08:05 AM

And if you had? Would you be qualified to say the only thing that stayed your hand was the simple fact that you couldn't get the agony your wife and child would suffer out of your head? The indignity of her having to deal with the aftermath emotionally as well as the mess left behind.

chimchimski · 04-26-2008, 08:35 AM

Rumpole just hit it on the head for me...My ex-husband had taken everything away from me that mattered and I was at my lowest point...The ONLY reason I didn't go through with it...was thinking of my son coming home to find me, his mother, in a bloody bathtub...dead from my own hands...so through tears and a heaviness I could never convey, I got up out of that tub, put away the blades, blew out the candles and you know...just as I was cleaning up...he came home early...I have never thought of it to that extreme since. I just know, what it would do to my family.

But let me tell you something...getting up out of that bathtub was one of the hardest decisions I ever had to make...but, I am so glad that I made it!! It feels like I have been given a second chance at life...I tell myself, "Make it count, Robin"...you know it only comes around once!!

CodeRed · 04-26-2008, 08:41 AM

Feeling suicidal is one of the most isolated feelings one could go through, I would warrant. I believe that the head space for that kind of thing rarely allows for thinking about what you would be putting loved ones through - and often I have heard 'nobody would care/notice anyway' as being the only thought given to it. I suppose in that regard it's a selfish way of thinking.

I suggest that the open threat of suicide is one of the more selfish things. I was once told "the only reason I haven't sat in the bath tub and slit my wrists open is because I need to be here for you" - a lovely notion for a 13 year old to carry.

seigfried007 · 04-26-2008, 08:42 AM

Umm, having attempted suicide several times (some VERY close calls and a whole lot of trips to the hospital) I can state with finality that suicide is selfish.

Literally, I had run away from a bad circumstance--jumping fences and evading loved ones--and was on the curb--planning to and willing to throw myself in front of an 18-wheeler trucking 65mph or better on 465 in Indianapolis on a clear, beautiful spring day--when the thought of "What about the truck driver?" popped into my head.

Oh sure, my torment would be over (or just beginning in you like the notion of burning in Hell), but what about the poor guy who was just trucking along and minding his own business? What about other motorists or police or family members? How would they feel prying your teeth from the front of a semi? Who gets to mop up your remains from the asphalt? Bet you made that person's year, hunh?

No matter how I thought of killing myself, I couldn't find a way that wouldn't be heavily traumatic to people near me. Someone would always have to clean up the mess--my mess. Someone would have to pay a buttload of cash to get me buried or otherwise disposed of. Someone would need therapy for a long time to deal with the loss of poor, depressed, selfish me.

My parents are poor. Money's always been tight and I've always been painfully aware of that so the expense they would have to go through to get me buried actually stung me quite a bit-- not as much as the image of that truck driver bawling his eyes out because he killed a teenaged girl--but a lot.

I was diagnosed and medicated for depression so severe it caused hallucinations at the age of 8. I've chronically had depression all the way through my teens--think twelve years of the crappiest days imaginable combined with an abusive childhood, dysfunctional family (mom was a religious zealot who was always forcing the end of the world down my throat and forcing me to talk about the abuse--when she wasn't beating us with various kitchen utencils, belts and smaller tree limbs or nagging my father into doing it for her), social ineptitude at school, a distinct lack of hair because of a obsessive-compulsive disorder, and the complete inability to make myself understood among people my age and it's really no surprise I was suicidal.

But, despite the issues I had at home and the monsters in my past, I knew my family loved me the best way they knew how. I also knew that, despite my inability to get along with boyfriend's family at the time, my boyfriend/fiance loved me (and that seeing me get plastered by a semi would probably throw him into killing himself--and it might have made my mother off herself too).

chimchimski · 04-26-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeRed

I suggest that the open threat of suicide is one of the more selfish things. I was once told "the only reason I haven't sat in the bath tub and slit my wrists open is because I need to be here for you" - a lovely notion for a 13 year old to carry.

You know Code...I never told my son what I was in there doing...I couldn't lay that on him...he knew things were bad for me, and I was on all of this medication for depression and a long list of other diagnosed issues.
But that does remind me of my mother...I came home from school to find her overdosed on sleeping pills...when she got better and was released from the hospital she asked me, why I didn't just let her sleep...that is still a bitter thorn.
You would think I would have thought of her when I was going through my issues...but that reality factor...it just refuses to cooperate with the hopelessness that is carried and felt.

CodeRed · 04-26-2008, 09:17 AM

Chim... Sorry if it sounded like my post was responding to yours - I didn't see your post until after I posted mine, but I realised it could have been taken that way.

I think I may be a little too jaded to participate in this debate regardless, I've had so many people use the threat of suicide as emotional blackmail my view of it has become a little skewed.

SeattleGhostWriter · 04-26-2008, 09:34 AM

Suicide is not only selfish - but it is the ultimate cowardly act that one could ever make.

Like others have said.

Suicide is final.

Yet, those who have passed on due to this self-inflicted cause have deluded themselves into thinking they are utter alone. Granted, the sense of isolation, the preconcieved notion that no one cares.

Most young teenagers who commit suicide, do it because of the "Woes" me syndrome.

I can't handle my life.

I can't deal with the fact that the love of my life walked out on me, cheated on me, whatever have you...

Granted, psychologically speaking, every human being has entertained the thought of death, suicide. Some may have even jokingly discussed what is the most painless way to commit suicide (Raises hand).

Some have thought about different ways. Some have even gone to lengths to actually attempt it and survive to realize that their life is not as pitiful as they think.

I have walked through my abyss and darkness. I have thought about suicide on several occasions.

You know what.... no matter how alone I felt, how desperate I felt, I knew that I was being a dumbass. I was being selfish and I was being a coward.

Face your demons. Face whatever is troubling you head on. Put on the gloves and don't get out of the ring until you kick that nasty bug out of you and then, when you are all bloodied up, tattered and torn, bruised and beaten down..... You can stand, lifting your hands high in the air, holding your head up high, knowing you kicked ass and that your problems didn't kick yours.

Enough said.

Matthatter · 04-26-2008, 09:45 AM

Define selfishness (hint: if you don't help someone when you think you should you experience guilt, regret, etc).

Also, not every situation leading one ot suicide is the same.

So, yes, it is selfish, but every action one makes is (what selfishness literally means is not bad, it is just how everyone is, but the word is usually used to describe someone whose selfishness contains either high levels of ignorance or low levels of empathy).

Maybe one wants to look at things in a utilitarian sense...

Joe has many behavioral and emotional problems. He never feels very happy, and is constantly having to prove to himself that he is better than everyone else. He is rude to coworkers, people at his regular bar, and anyone else he comes in contact with (he may act nice to other people, but they never feel too comfy around him). Joe finally starts catching on that nobody likes his presence, and he's also coming to terms with some of his defense mechanisms, making him less able to throw some of his irritation onto others. He gets more and more miserable and finally kills himself.

Is this selfish? Yes. Is this BAD selfish? All metaphysical ideas aside, we have the pain people will experience at the result of this news, and never seeing Joe again (his parents may be very upset, some acquintances or even friends may be upset), and then we have the lack of pain of a large number of people who would be negatively affected by Joe if Joe still lived. Not only would these people be affected, but they, not being enlightened individuals, would also probably harm others due to such an excess of irritation, and so on.

I am not saying I believe in suicide, because I can't say that I know there is no point to this life (beyond this life). Suicide may be VERY destructive to one's soul, and one of the worst things one can do in their life, but it might not be, I'm not sure.