A discussion on The British Empire. - Writers Forum

midlandsmuse · 08-13-2005, 03:04 AM

Apparently, because I'm a hypocrite because of where I was born I would like a discussion on the British Empire. I am British and I will draw my line in the sand first.

I hate the British Empire. I think it was a group of very greedy, very scared and very hateful people who spread to the four corners of the world and raped it. Believing that "our" way of life was better than what proceeded it. Complete rubbish.

I am ashamed of the history of my country. If I could change things I will.

midlandsmuse · 08-13-2005, 03:06 AM

Can I also say that I hate all violence. No matter who perpetrates it.

Yes, even my own country

Sapphira · 08-13-2005, 01:20 PM

I have spent some time in the UK.

Obviously, you're referring to the questionable past, as the current state of the country is comparable to an old man in a wheelchair. Now it just seems like the US' boy-wonder lackey.

The irony is that in its prime, the British Empire was the modern day America. It was dominant and oppressive and patriotic to a fault. So the colonies fighting back in the 18th century was a family quarrel of epic proportions.

I don't hate history...I think it's just man's nature to be domineering and oppressive to whatever he controls. Many other empires were just as cruel and tyrannical in their day.

Violence is certainly a bummer, but I don't think there will ever be a dominant world power that doesn't use violence as the ace up their sleeve.

Airborneguy · 08-13-2005, 01:54 PM

England just managed to push themselves to the top of the pack back then. No matter what, someone would have held that distinction, it was just the times. I believe that imperialism was necesary back then and it fueled the expansion and exploration that went on. Spain, France, or Portugal would have been just as bad if they happened to become the dominant force.

Capulet · 08-15-2005, 10:36 AM

Spain, France, and Portugal were just as bad. Germany as well, rounding out the top five Western imperial powers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airborneguy

England just managed to push themselves to the top of the pack back then. No matter what, someone would have held that distinction, it was just the times. I believe that imperialism was necesary back then and it fueled the expansion and exploration that went on. Spain, France, or Portugal would have been just as bad if they happened to become the dominant force.

PaPa · 08-16-2005, 05:43 PM

As has been noted, pretty much every country in the time period was guilty of the same crimes - Britian just managed to do it best.

However, it is as wrong to ignore the good that came of the Empire as it is to ignore the bad. Britain helped many countries to develop, for all that they did it for their own ends, and although you might bring out our arrogance in forcing our way of life upon others, the fact is that some ways of running a country are better than others. Are you honestly going to say that tyranny and oppression has equal validity as a "way of life" as democracy and equality?

Many countries would be a great deal worse off were it not for the Empire. Don't think that I'm ignoring the horrors of Imperial rule, I'm just not going into them in this post because they are already well known.

LensmanZ313 · 08-18-2005, 09:40 PM

At least, some British can recognize the horrors done by their empire. Americans, for the most part, still try to ignore the horrors done by American imperialism.

journyman161 · 08-18-2005, 09:56 PM

I think you may be focussing a bit too narrowly here, but I hesitate to bring up the Race issue.

(but I will) I think both the current & prior imperialist surges are a product of the white race. Those caucasian countries that haven't tried it on would have only been prevented by circumstance, not moral superiority.

As both africans & native americans (& many other non-cauc tribes) found to their cost, we don't fight the way they do. They would fight a battle & go home to celebrate, maybe adding the beaten people into the tribe, maybe trying to wipe them out. the whites brought the concept of waging war, of theatres of battle & many other differences in attitudes, but the worst thing they did was displace other cultures, sometimes to the point of obliteration, regularly & consistently.

When war wouldn't work, we used trade & religion to 'prove' our superiority over people with much longer histories than our own.

If winners didn't write the histories, the whites would be seen as true barbarians, bringing a culture of physical might allied with domineering religion to lands that had long since fought through to civilisation.

It's not a nice picture but it happened. The only true way to say 'sorry' to the vanished peoples & cultures is to ensure it never happens again - something we have yet to propose or achieve.

LensmanZ313 · 08-19-2005, 01:38 AM

Some good points, Journeyman. It's not a nice picture and it's a picture a lot of people don't want to see. I saw Rabbit-Proof Fence and was shocked on how religion and government tried so hard to control the Aborigines. I know that the film was attacked by some groups as being inaccurate--but some have told me it was fairly accurate. Anyway, the whole attitude of the whites was . . . it sickens me.

Neo · 08-17-2007, 05:07 PM

The Empire made the UK a rich place and in the end that's all that matters. Now, the colonies have independence.

Hodge · 08-17-2007, 05:10 PM

I think you say these things just to piss people off.

hobbish · 08-17-2007, 05:22 PM

I think he says these things 'cause he's a dick.

Neo · 08-18-2007, 08:01 AM

I say these things because I believe them. If I said something that fitted in with what you think you'd just agree with me. I forgot that in the 21st Century having an opinion is morally wrong.

PaPa · 08-18-2007, 08:04 AM

Having an opinion isn't wrong.

Resurrecting a two year old thread is.

Neo · 08-18-2007, 09:10 AM

Damn...I did this a few months ago and no-one noticed.