The Sex Thread: traditional sexual morality - Writers Forum

freebird · 06-30-2005, 01:09 PM

Traditional sexual morality consists of honoring your parents, caring for your children, saving sex for marriage, making marriage fruitful and being faithful to your spouse.

I just read a piece called Adhesives and Sex by J. Budziszewski who writes about sex in the upcoming issue of Touchstone Magazine. The author a professor of government and philosophy at the University of Texas, Austin, and the author, most recently, of What We Can’t Not Know: A Guide (Dallas: Spence Publishing, 2003).

Here is an excerpt:

When I say we aren’t designed for [casual sex], I’m also speaking of males. A woman may be more likely to cry the next morning; it’s not so easy to sleep with a man who won’t even call you back. But a man pays a price too. He probably thinks he can instrumentalize his relationships with women in general, yet remain capable of romantic intimacy when the right woman comes along. Sorry, fellow. That’s not how it works.

Sex is like applying adhesive tape; promiscuity is like ripping the tape off again. If you rip it off, rip it off, rip it off, eventually the tape can’t stick anymore.

The whole article is at http://www.touchstonemag.com/temp/budfeature.html

We have at least three threads dealing with homosexuality issues, but none dealing with traditional sexual morality. Here is that thread.

The Thing · 06-30-2005, 01:40 PM

Sorry, I can't relate to any of this becuase my first sexual experiance was with the 'right woman'. We split up after eight months and now I'm with the next 'right woman'. We've been together for five years and have a wonderful child - which is the whole (biological) reason for having sex. So, having never experianced, or ever wanting to experiance, casual sex, I can clearly state that being the kind of fellow that is happy with his lot, none of this is relevent.

But, I have seen some disturbingly self-destructive behaviour among who few of my friends who are promiscuous.

I, myself, ignored the sexual revolution, and am quite happy with my traditional values.

Since I haven't read the whole article - I kinds picked up the gist - I hope this is relevent to the topic.

freebird · 06-30-2005, 01:48 PM

One of my close friends RV Brown (www.RVBrown.com) and I were having a late lunch one day this week. He is on tour with his new book "Step up to the Plate, DAD!

RV visits some of the toughest US Prisons in America, he said he looks those guys in the eyes and tells them: "It is okay to love your wife. It is okay to hug your kids. It is okay to cry."

As an Alpha male myself, I need to be reminded from time to time. If you think it is bitching and whining in the homosexual thread when people like Kane and I disagree with people, the underlying premise is: there is nothing better than sex with your wife, with whom you plan to spend your life with. Research bears out that children are more stable when raised in a two parent home with both a mother and a father. It has to be better to be surrounded by love, than surrounded by doubt.

I hope this thread stays positive.

www.rvbrown.com

freebird · 06-30-2005, 01:51 PM

All in all that is what I think the author is trying to get across. Thanks for sharing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Thing

But, I have seen some disturbingly self-destructive behaviour among who few of my friends who are promiscuous. I, myself, ignored the sexual revolution, and am quite happy with my traditional values.

The Thing · 06-30-2005, 01:53 PM

I agree with what you say about kids, freebird, needing two loving parents. My sister-in-law is a single mother and she finds it hards to share her free time with her son. She works, is attending college, and is a single mother, my hat goes off to her for trying, but it's not doing her son any good.

Just two weeks ago he was suspended from nursery for kicking a teacher in the face! He's only four. The 'experts' say that he's looking for attention.

Would another parent have helped? or is he just a bad kid, anyway?

freebird · 06-30-2005, 02:06 PM

It just helps to have the two parents. The saying two minds are better than one, kids are a handful. We have never figured out yet how to keep our kids off sites on the Internet.

Sometimes single parents just need a break. With two, it gives them the opportunity. I think that is why some abuse occurs. Common sense tells us when you come home from a hardday at work and the boss has been on you, the last thing you want to do is fix dinner and take care of kid. But you have to.

I hope folks pitch in and help your sister-in law out. This summer, we are letting our kids spend a month with their grandparents, but we are rotating them. We are spending special time with each kid. Doing things with them. My oldest daughter is 17, next year she is off to college. I love my kids. And I have tried to be the best dad I know how to be with them. But as I remind my kids, they did not come with an instructions manual.

Thanks again!

TexasProud · 06-30-2005, 09:04 PM

as stated by ...the Thing....Sorry, I can't relate to any of this becuase my first sexual experiance was with the 'right woman'. We split up after eight months and now I'm with the next 'right woman'. We've been together for five years and have a wonderful child - which is the whole (biological) reason for having sex. So, having never experianced, or ever wanting to experiance, casual sex, I can clearly state that being the kind of fellow that is happy with his lot, none of this is relevent.

THE THING I applaud your honesty and the self-will to stand up and be proud of your traditional values. Our world lacks ALOT of that today. My best friend was one of those guys who was really into sex, and now he has two kids by two different women eating up his paycheck every week. So, yea...

I fell in love with my 'first' and married her. We have a child, and one on the way. So yea, I follow what you are saying. That is not to say that I didn't want to go out and be like everybody else...but, that is just part of being a guy. So, again...yea...

Hodge · 06-30-2005, 10:50 PM

Promiscuity is hard wired into us. Why do you think adultery is so common? Social norms tell us it's not okay, which means that adultery is a product of a more powerful urge. A biological urge.

1) Promiscuity has been linked to a stronger immune system.
http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/rele...ov-9-2000.html

2) Our biological function is to procreate as much as possible. Men are built to go around inseminating everything that moves (quanty > quality). Women can only go through so many pregnancies, they only have so many eggs, and pregnancy requires a lot of effort and strain, so they are wired to let the best man in (quality > quantity).

3) Humans are also built for serial monogamy (women more than men), which means we tend to pair up with one person at any given time, but many people over the course of a lifetime. It's interesting to note that marriages only last about four years after the first child is born (on average), and four years is about the age in which two parents aren't a neccessity.

4) If it feels so right, how can it be wroooong?

Most of what we attach to sex is socially construed. Intense attachment, "intimacy," and "love" are only part of sex because we as a society let it be. A popular counterculture in the 60s—hippies—exercised free love. Their social norms were different from the dominant culture's—and ours, to a large extent.

LensmanZ313 · 07-02-2005, 07:59 AM

Traditional smaditional. If two or more people want to engage in a consensual act--so be it.

Two parents. Man and woman . . . man and man . . . or woman and woman . . . if two people love each other and share that same love for a child or children--then, that's good enough. Kids need loving parents. Who cares if the parents are gay or straight. Caring, loving parents are what's needed today.

Dan101 · 07-02-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LensmanZ313

Traditional smaditional. If two or more people want to engage in a consensual act--so be it.

Two parents. Man and woman . . . man and man . . . or woman and woman . . . if two people love each other and share that same love for a child or children--then, that's good enough. Kids need loving parents. Who cares if the parents are gay or straight. Caring, loving parents are what's needed today.

I agree 100%.

It is no one's right to deny two people who are in love the right to marry, or the right to engage in said consensual act. To all of you who disagree, not necessarily on religious levels: imagine someone saying that you were not allowed to love your husband/wife. Imagine the government passing laws that illegalize your love. How would you feel?
Now, to all the people who disagree on religious levels: Do you think that your loving god would deny the love of two people? Do you think that the god that you worship would deny two people the right to marry and love eachother? No.

I swear, some of the issues that come up today just seem so pointless to me. People need to stop finding reasons to hate and start actually thinking.

The Thing · 07-03-2005, 06:54 AM

I'm not saying people can't shag whoever they want, I'm just saying it doesn't appeal to me and therefore I haven't spent my weekend's chasing members of the opposite sex.

Are you going to argue me my right to spend the rest of my life with the same woman?

Dan101 · 07-03-2005, 11:22 AM

No, I was arguing that everyone has the right to be with whomever they want, not that they have to be.

LensmanZ313 · 07-06-2005, 06:43 AM

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/state/c...hers_0706.html

Quote:

Just before Father's Day, Gov. Jeb Bush announced that he wanted every public school in Florida to host a Christian-based program designed to increase fathers' participation in their children's lives.

The program, All Pro Dad, combines a biblical foundation with the draw of popular professional athletes to promote the belief that "the father is the head of the household" and that men should rely on God to help them be better parents and keep their marriages intact. It also encourages Bible reading.

Evidently, Neil Bush missed out on that.

Quote:

Father called 'head coach' of family

One of the marriage-saving lessons, written by All Pro Dad Director Bryan Davis, coaches men to pray with their wives.

"God has joined you and your wife together. He is the Author of love and marital harmony. Deepening your relationship with Him is the key and foundation of a successful marriage. If you haven't cracked open a Bible in a while, start. Find I Corinthians 13 and give it a read. It's the perfect blueprint for your marriage," Davis advises.

A video introduction by Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy, All Pro Dad's national spokesman, lays the groundwork for good parenting by establishing the father as the "head coach" of the family.

"That's the biblical way it's set up. Mom and Dad directing the family together, with the dad being the head of the household," Dungy instructs participants. "Now that doesn't always happen... but that's the ideal way and the best way, and that's the way we're going to function the best."

But the group's president last week did not directly answer several questions about the Bible's role in the All Pro Dad resources.

"Isn't that self-evident?" Merrill said. "A lot of the principles contained in the Old and New Testaments really are superior principles for raising children and for living."

OK. I'll say it. This program doesn't belong in public schools and it sure as hell shouldn't be funded by public taxpayers' money.

Saturnal · 07-06-2005, 08:18 AM

I think sexual morality is a strange term that I don't fully understand. I guess I'd consider myself sexually moral in the sense that I don't rape people or use sex to take advantage of others. But I don't consider men OR women who have had many sexual partners to be less moral than someone like me who's only had a couple. To me, sex is sex. Humans have lost and denied a lot of their animal instincts, but this is one we can't seem to shake. Sex is a purely physical thing; that's it. Humans have generally convinced themselves it's something more than that, and we're the only species that does this. But it is purely physical. That's why people have sex with people who they despise and wake up the next morning crying about it. Sometimes we can't help it. We just need the physical satisfaction. Some of us are better at controlling it than others, but I'd say finding someone who doesn't do it (and isn't royally screwed up) or at least masturbate regularly would be pretty tough. But I don't think it has anything to do with love or emotion. Love/respect/whatever are seperate from sex, but people like to lump those things together. Maybe they do it because they can't understand how they can just want sex. "I can't just want to fuck this girl/guy. I'm not that shallow am I? No, I can't be. It's because I love him/her. Yeah that's it." I understand people loving eachother. I thought I was in love a couple of times, but when I got completely honest with myself, I was able to see that I was in lust, not love. I wanted these women sexually and once I had them, and the initial flame died down, we'd fall out of lust and hence out of "love". And if I ever really do fall in love, sex will still be sex. The whole experience will probably be a hell of a lot better because there would be so much emotion in addition to the physical desire, but that's another story.

I know this may sound grim or whatever, but I really think it's dangerous to mix sex in with love. Those are two totally different things. Sex may be a good way to show your love for someone, but you don't pop wood because someone tells you they love you

Viper9 · 07-23-2005, 10:49 PM

Freebird: "Research bears out that children are more stable when raised in a two parent home with both a mother and a father. It has to be better to be surrounded by love, than surrounded by doubt."

No it doesn't. What it does show is that children have better outcomes (emotional stability, career success, etc.) when raised in stable homes, regardless of number or sexuality of parents.

On the other hand, research also demonstrates that children have better outcomes when grandparents are involved in their upbringing, and this was true even when the grandparents weren't what you'd call "stable".

The moral is: Let that crazty old grandma spend more time with the kids!