Thread: An issue of sexuality?

Is it really? I'm curious to know who thinks this would even have come up at the ages stated had not the parents had issues themselves?

Too Soon? An 11-year-old California boy and a 7-year-old Georgia girl have recently decided -- with parental support -- to come out as the other gender. The boy, Tommy, wants more time to think about it, said his lesbian parents, and has begun taking hormone blockers to make his transition easier should he follow through with plans (first disclosed at age 3) to become "Tammy." The McIntosh County, Ga., girl has been living as a boy for a year, said father Tommy Theollyn, a transgendered man who is actually the one who gave birth. Theollyn petitioned the school board in September (unsuccessfully) to allow the child to use the boys' bathroom. Theollyn said the girl first noticed she was a boy at age 18 months. [CNN, 9-27-2011] [Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 9-14-2011]

I'm okay with people identifying as they wish. I have a problem with gender crossing when it comes to small children. But I can reconcile myself with it when the persons are teenagers. I suppose 14 years of age.

Small children only understand the opposite sex through social concepts of gender their environments indoctrinates them with. A female does not have to cook in a kitchen or play with dolls, she can box in a gym or race cars. If a child thinks he is a she because he does not like to do "boy things" then this is a psychological issue related to gender perception.

Personally, I don't know how parents promoting their young children take hormones to look like the opposite sex, is somehow better than what Sandusky did at Penn State. Not to revive the Penn State thread or derail the topic. I just don't see how to issues of child sexuality can be viewed in such polar opposites.

Sounds more like the parents are transferring their own identity issues onto their children. I agree - kids that age know no more about sexual identity than which toys are typically thrust on them.

Originally Posted by shadowwalker

Sounds more like the parents are transferring their own identity issues onto their children. I agree - kids that age know no more about sexual identity than which toys are typically thrust on them.

My thoughts exactly.

The main responsibility of a parent is to feed, clothe, protect, and guide the child. I would answer what you posted about the eleven-year-old like this: Many teenagers have struggled knowing they have tendencies not of their own sex but of the other. Some have been so frightened by their parents' finding out and rejecting them, that the teenagers have committed suicide.

Now if that eleven-year-old boy was your own child, wouldn't you do what was best for the child. If the boy is smart enough to know that he is a "girl trapped in a boy's body" and seeks his parents' help, I think the parents should grant his wish--or at least convince the boy to wait and few more years so he is completely certain that he wants to go through life as a girl. Either way, communication between parents and child is essential; in fact, it might keep the child from committing suicide. Many teenagers have taken their own lives struggling with sexual identity.

Do what's necessary to keep the child from harming himself and to make sure he is happy with himself venturing through life. That's what I would do if I were his father. And, I wouldn't give a rat's tail about what other's thought because others won't be walking in my boy's (daughter's) heels.


The story described has happened not only to parents who were gay but also to parents who were straight. When it happens to a gay parents, the gay parents will take the bashing (weird parents). However, when it happens to straight parents, the child will take the bashing (weird child). That's how the story goes.

I'm curious to know who thinks this would even have come up at the ages stated had not the parents had issues themselves?

I'm not going to get into a debate on here, it could go on for four hundred pages; but, Ditch, I have no hesitation in saying there would be no story here with these children if their parents--as you put it--didn't have issues themselves. You say would it have come up at these ages? I'd go a step further and say would it have even come up at all?

I find it all a little disturbing.

I agree with your view of parents' responsibility - but in this case, when the parent is stating the kid knew at 18 months old? Seems the kid needs someone other than the parent guiding them. Frankly, I'm not sure an 11-year-old is 'smart enough' to make that kind of decision either.

I sometimes wonder how much of this 'identity crisis' is just the normal sexual confusion almost all teens go through and thought of as gender confusion only because it's the big thing now. That's very badly put, and I apologize for that, but I don't know exactly how else to put it. It's just that everyone seems to be talking about teens and gender/sexual identity - sometimes it feels like some groups are putting as much pressure on these kids to be non-het as their families are to be het. No wonder kids end up committing suicide when they have so many people (in-person and online) telling them what they are or should be.

to me....this is an example of child abuse, plain and simple. recently here in this country....
we've had government entities take one child away from his parents for naming him "adolf"
and another kid was taken away from his parents for being too overweight. and yet
these parents can parade this type of mentally defective parenting around and be
proud of it? this country is making less and less sense everyday.

From Girl to Boy

From Girl to Boy - Coping and Overcoming Illness : People.com


18 months--no way. The person doesn't deserve to be a parent.

That article really points out the problems. The kid didn't want to be a girl - but he can't really understand what a man is either (his father isn't 'manly' because he gardens? Guess I should have told my dad that as he worked in his rose garden - he probably should have turned in his Bronze Star). But at least his parents have compassion (and brains) enough to support the kid without letting him/her jump blindly into long-term and potentially disastrous decisions.

Irresponsible parenting. Like the straight parent who buys his 10-year-old a shotgun and then lets the boy trot off into the woods unsupervised where he ends up shooting off the gun and killing somebody. Has it happened? Probably, but not much--just like the topic here.

Where are the aunts and uncles? Grandparents? Somebody with sense. (Did sense return from holiday yet?)

Too soon? Yes I totally agree with you. What to do about it? I am afraid there will always be idiots with drums to bang, and our best efforts and influence are with those we know day to day. I know a lesbian couple locally who jumped through hoops for years to be allowed to adopt a little boy, they are great parents, I could never imagine something like this happening with them. Legislation is a blunt tool, like Robinjazz says, where are the family support group? Child rearing is a personal matter that needs individual attention government and state can not provide.

First, I think we need to separate the two issues, which I'm surprised no-one has done yet. A person's development and recognition of their own identity has nothing whatsoever to do with sexuality. Understanding our own identity, be it culture, gender, race, etc. usually begins at 4 years old. To anyone saying that the children were too young to decide such a thing, did you identify with your own gender when you were that age? If you knew that you were male/female at that age then is it really so unbelievable that a 4 year old could be aware that their gender is not what they feel it should be? This isn't about being 'smart' enough, it's about the way someone feels.

(The exception to this is the 18 month old, which is absolutely too young. A child of that age is only just beginning to understand the concepts of time and possession.)

I agree that some children develop issues related to image and identity due to bad parenting. But there is no such thing as the perfect parent. All parents transpose some of their own issues and shortcomings onto their children, whether it's a child lacking motivation because the parents don't work or not understanding what it means to be male/female because they haven't had any strong role models and have little social experience outside of the family.

That's not always the case though. We don't know enough about gender identity (or sexuality for that matter) to state that it's all to do with how the children were brought up. As a gay man, I have a lot of gay friends who grew up in very secure, heterosexual environments, and at a time when sexuality wasn't discussed and rarely featured on TV shows. They were harassed at work and in their own homes by police, and certainly didn't decide to be gay because it was the trendy thing to do, as shadowwalker suggested. I don't think that's the case with gender identity either. The only reason we hear so much about it now is because it's acceptable to talk about it publicly. In the past, people would have just suffered with the thought that they were different or possibly convinced themselves that they were the same as everyone else. Perhaps these people, the ones who couldn't talk about it, were the very ones who transposed their issues onto their children.

As for groups who encourage people to be 'non-het', I would hate to think that anyone who has experienced identity issues themselves would actively, and deliberately, encourage someone to conform to a type of lifestyle that causes them to be hated and treated with suspicion or pity.

I hope that any child experiencing confusion with their gender identity gets the professional support and guidance that they need. Though whether the confusion is due to genetics, chemistry or parenting, the likelihood is that the damage is already done. In which case it's far better for the child to be supported through any transition they decide to make and be happier at the end of it, than it is for them to live in distress and misery for the rest of, what could be, their short lives.

Originally Posted by yingguoren

First, I think we need to separate the two issues, which I'm surprised no-one has done yet. A person's development and recognition of their own identity has nothing whatsoever to do with sexuality. Understanding our own identity, be it culture, gender, race, etc. usually begins at 4 years old. To anyone saying that the children were too young to decide such a thing, did you identify with your own gender when you were that age? If you knew that you were male/female at that age then is it really so unbelievable that a 4 year old could be aware that their gender is not what they feel it should be? This isn't about being 'smart' enough, it's about the way someone feels.

(The exception to this is the 18 month old, which is absolutely too young. A child of that age is only just beginning to understand the concepts of time and possession.)

I agree that some children develop issues related to image and identity due to bad parenting. But there is no such thing as the perfect parent. All parents transpose some of their own issues and shortcomings onto their children, whether it's a child lacking motivation because the parents don't work or not understanding what it means to be male/female because they haven't had any strong role models and have little social experience outside of the family.

That's not always the case though. We don't know enough about gender identity (or sexuality for that matter) to state that it's all to do with how the children were brought up. As a gay man, I have a lot of gay friends who grew up in very secure, heterosexual environments, and at a time when sexuality wasn't discussed and rarely featured on TV shows. They were harassed at work and in their own homes by police, and certainly didn't decide to be gay because it was the trendy thing to do, as shadowwalker suggested. I don't think that's the case with gender identity either. The only reason we hear so much about it now is because it's acceptable to talk about it publicly. In the past, people would have just suffered with the thought that they were different or possibly convinced themselves that they were the same as everyone else. Perhaps these people, the ones who couldn't talk about it, were the very ones who transposed their issues onto their children.

As for groups who encourage people to be 'non-het', I would hate to think that anyone who has experienced identity issues themselves would actively, and deliberately, encourage someone to conform to a type of lifestyle that causes them to be hated and treated with suspicion or pity.

I hope that any child experiencing confusion with their gender identity gets the professional support and guidance that they need. Though whether the confusion is due to genetics, chemistry or parenting, the likelihood is that the damage is already done. In which case it's far better for the child to be supported through any transition they decide to make and be happier at the end of it, than it is for them to live in distress and misery for the rest of, what could be, their short lives.

i call bull. if these children would've had normal parents, this wouldn't even be an issue. this is no different than
a child raised around any other type of sociopathic behavior mimicking his/her environment.

Originally Posted by dale

to me....this is an example of child abuse, plain and simple. recently here in this country....
we've had government entities take one child away from his parents for naming him "adolf"
and another kid was taken away from his parents for being too overweight. and yet
these parents can parade this type of mentally defective parenting around and be
proud of it? this country is making less and less sense everyday.

Unless you know everything there is to know about gender identity, it's not plain and simple child abuse. It is, however, plain and simple that a child suffering from health problems due to being obese, is at best neglect and at worst abuse. The solution in extreme cases (though not all) is for the child to be placed into care with responsible parents.

Some children may develop issues concerning gender because of the loss of one or more parents, making them confused about their role models and who they can trust. Taking them away from their remaining family may actually make the problem worse and result in the child's behaviour or issues becoming more extreme.

The real question is whether or not the child is harming themselves or anyone else. An obese child or one raised with extreme racist or authoritarian values will be more harmful than a child needing guidance about gender.