Thread: National / World Security

If this post is too personal it can be deleted, no problem.

I was in El Salvador (San Salvador is the capital) in the 80's and part of the 90's. Whatever you heard reported in the U.S. media, including by Peter, Paul, and Mary, the situation was far worse. I've been back several times since then, and have close friends who live in the refugee communities set up by the U.N. in Belize. The wounds have not healed. The bitterness remains.

Originally Posted by Rustgold

There were a series of US actions in South America during the 1980s & 90s which would have arguably been much worse if it wasn't for the UN. San Salvador comes to mind, but there will be better examples.

Russia has also been known to be reluctant to support US based war-mongering proposals against a range of countries. In turn, the UN does force China to pretend to be nice for the sake of image & stature. In these ways the UN has been a moderating influence limiting the damage which the UN & other countries do.

Granted, the UN is a pathetic paper tiger, but its existence does get governments such as the US & China to play a touch nicer. The consequences of throwing the rulebook of a UN away isn't something John Paul has even cared to consider. Instead for less war-mongering, there's every reason to believe that John Paul would cause more, and a submissive leader in that situation would be very dangerous indeed.

I’m pretty sure the U.N. didn’t stop the U.S. from starting any wars in South America. Of course, the list of examples of the U.S. intervening and interfering in the affairs of South American countries is a long as your arm -- installing and propping up various right wing dictatorships etc. -- or trying to. But I don’t recall the U.N. having much to say about it -- that includes our involvement in El Salvador, when it led to civil war -- as far as I know. What did the U.N. do -- issue some sort of strongly worded scolding?

I think the U.S has pretty much done what it wants to do worldwide -- either overtly or covertly. I can’t think of an example of when the U.N. stopped us from doing anything. What are the better examples?

Originally Posted by garza

If this post is too personal it can be deleted, no problem.

I was in El Salvador (San Salvador is the capital) in the 80's and part of the 90's. Whatever you heard reported in the U.S. media, including by Peter, Paul, and Mary, the situation was far worse. I've been back several times since then, and have close friends who live in the refugee communities set up by the U.N. in Belize. The wounds have not healed. The bitterness remains.

Is Man so messed up that He needs to put a pistol to His neighbor’s head to ensure peace? Is this any way to operate a planet? The situation He finds Himself in is both hilarious and tragic.
Just hope no intelligent beings are watching because His behavior is embarrassing. He still relies on the rules of the jungle, where only the fittest survive. Yet He wants everyone to believe He laid down his club long ago. Sad picture, for sure.

Black Friday, and a big screen for $179, should momentarily ease the pain.

Originally Posted by garza

If this post is too personal it can be deleted, no problem.

I was in El Salvador (San Salvador is the capital) in the 80's and part of the 90's. Whatever you heard reported in the U.S. media, including by Peter, Paul, and Mary, the situation was far worse. I've been back several times since then, and have close friends who live in the refugee communities set up by the U.N. in Belize. The wounds have not healed. The bitterness remains.

I was in Honduras back in the late '80s, on the Nicaraguan border. I had to sign some papers saying that I couldn't talk about it, so someone go ahead and rat me off so I can go to Club Fed.

Here's what I saw: Fear.

I saw fifteen year old farm boys drafted into a conflict that was not of their making. Their families struggled while the young men weren't available to help them. They were homesick, confused, and scared. These boys looked up at us big, tough Marines. And my heart ached.

After a few weeks, the tension abated and we left. I heard that the Contras blew-up some stuff, and the Sandinistas chased them into Honduras. But the news machine eventually lost interest and moved on. Let's face it, Ollie North and Fawn Whatshername were sexier than dirty, poor kids.

The media may have moved on, but I'll never forget those young "soldiers". It would all do us well to remember the burden that conflict places on the world's young and poor.

Most of the media did move on. A few of us stayed and tried to tell what was happening. Much of the world, including North America, was little interested. Here is something left over from those days.

Originally Posted by Winston

The media may have moved on, but I'll never forget those young "soldiers". It would all do us well to remember the burden that conflict places on the world's young and poor.

Maybe the truth is you and those boys were being used. Perhaps, even the media was used. In time of war and violent conflicts, the truth is either manipulated or buried.

Originally Posted by Deyo

Don't lump all Americans in with our warmongering leaders. Obama got elected to stop the war.

Who should Americans be lumped in with? You are what you do, and Americans have been at war in one form or another for 50 years.

Well, it's not that simple. Of course many Americans disagree with the policies of our leaders. I think you know that. You could say we continue to elect leaders who insist on interfering in the affairs of other countries -- but even those we elect who are less likely to do so and who want to change course soon find out it's not a simple thing to just pull out or walk away from the messes we've created.

It just might be time for each government to transfer the reins of leadership to women. Up until now, men governing the world has been a complete failure; their track record doesn't lie.

If women cannot succed where men have failed, then bombs away. Maybe when this selfish, pathetic crop no longer exists, nature will create a more peaceful and loving species to fill the void--a species that will place emphasize on the needs of its kind and not manipulate or abuse or enslave one another.

That is the situtation. Y'all focusing on small potatoes.

I'm learnin' one thing good. Learnin' it all a time, ever' day. If you're in trouble or hurt or need--go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help--the only ones. [Ibid.

Originally Posted by Robinjazz

It just might be time for each government to transfer the reins of leadership to women. Up until now, men governing the world has been a complete failure; their track record doesn't lie.

If women cannot succed where men have failed, [Ibid.

Heed the words of Kipling...

For the female of the species is more deadly than the male

Originally Posted by Robinjazz

If women cannot succed where men have failed, then bombs away. Maybe when this selfish, pathetic crop no longer exists, nature will create a more peaceful and loving species to fill the void--a species that will place emphasize on the needs of its kind and not manipulate or abuse or enslave one another.

Nature has never created a peaceful species. All species exist at the expense of others, and all species who exhibit any form of societal structure be it ants, apes, wolves, humans, or whatever build that structure on a foundation of dominance. Existence is struggle and where one groups' struggle overlaps with another there will be conflict. That is nature's way.

Originally Posted by Terry D

Nature has never created a peaceful species. All species exist at the expense of others, and all species who exhibit any form of societal structure be it ants, apes, wolves, humans, or whatever build that structure on a foundation of dominance. Existence is struggle and where one groups' struggle overlaps with another there will be conflict. That is nature's way.

Is nature finished creating, Terry? Now? Ever? How can you be so bold as to predict what is heading down the pipe--5, 000 years from now or 1,000,000 years from now? If you possess the ability to do so, please inform me who will win tonight's football game between the Saints and the Giants. My rent is due next week and I could use a few extra bucks.
Who can be sure whether homo sapiens are merely obstacles to a super race? Since records have been kept about civilizations, our behavior suggests we have been anything but super.

“THE GREATEST GIFT YOU CAN GIVE A CHILD IS AN IMAGINATION”
― Eleanor Roosevelt

Originally Posted by Bloggsworth

Heed the words of Kipling...

For the female of the species is more deadly than the male

Maybe Kipling wasn't an Equal Opportunity Employer, and maybe he had a phobia for working beneath a woman. Who's to know?

Eleanor Roosevelt, what can anybody say about this lady other than maybe she should have been in the oval office making decisions and her husband Franklin should have bee standing behind her (instead of the other way around).


Here are quotes from Eleanor Roosevent, who, I believe, could hold her own against a Kipling.


Sometimes I wonder if we shall ever grow up in our politics and say definite things which mean something, or whether we shall always go on using generalities to which everyone can subscribe, and which mean very little.
Eleanor Roosevelt

Too often the great decisions are originated and given form in bodies made up wholly of men, or so completely dominated by them that whatever of special value women have to offer is shunted aside without expression.
Eleanor Roosevelt

Understanding is a two-way street.
Eleanor Roosevelt

When will our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?
Eleanor Roosevelt

“No one won the last war, and no one will win the next war.”
― Eleanor Roosevelt, The Wisdom Of Eleanor Roosevelt

“We have to face the fact that either all of us are going to die together or we are going to learn to live together, and if we are to live together we have to talk.”
― Eleanor Roosevelt

Anyone who thinks must think of the next war as they would of suicide.”
― Eleanor Roosevelt, Eleanor & Franklin

“It seems to me of great importance to teach children respect for life. Towards this end, experiments on living animals in classrooms should be stopped. To encourage cruelty in the name of science can only destroy the finer emotions of affection and sympathy, and breed an unfeeling callousness in the young towards suffering in all living creatures.”
― Eleanor Roosevelt

Evolution -- nature's way of 'creating' -- works through competition and conflict. Adaptation leads to an advantage in the struggle to survive ensuring that the adaptation is passed on. So, no, nature is not finished creating, nor will it ever be so long as life exists on this rock we all inhabit. That being the case, then there can never be any perfectly peaceful species. If such a creature existed it would surely be doomed to lose the evolutionary competition.

Where do you propose that a "super race" would come from if homo sapiens is an obstacle to its development?

Originally Posted by Terry D

Evolution -- nature's way of 'creating' -- works through competition and conflict. Adaptation leads to an advantage in the struggle to survive ensuring that the adaptation is passed on. So, no, nature is not finished creating, nor will it ever be so long as life exists on this rock we all inhabit. That being the case, then there can never be any perfectly peaceful species. If such a creature existed it would surely be doomed to lose the evolutionary competition.

Where do you propose that a "super race" would come from if homo sapiens is an obstacle to its development?

Didn't any of your professors ever teach you to "never say never."

There have been many gentle species created by nature. The problem has been the fiercer species have always dominated. Who is to say that a shift in the behavior of future species isn't possible? Change is the only thing certain, you know that. And change often than not blow minds.

Take the human race up to now. Our history suggests we are warring creatures, but we have had our share of peaceful indivuals walking amongst us. But, their ideas were met with resistance (through fear, I'm assuming) and never allowed to flourish and take root in the human psyche. So, nature indeed has created a handful of homo sapiens who go against the norm. Perhaps, in time, these human beings will be the majority and our current war-like behavior will cease to exist.

Why do you say nature needs planet earth to produce life? That is not true. Life can exist anywhere in the universe. Where did the dinosuars come from? Where did our prehistoric brothers and sisters come from? Where did the rose in your garden come from? The super race will come from the same place.


Personally, I believe a woman to be more gentle than a man. And allowing women to rule would be, in fact, jump-starting our process to a peaceful existence. In my opinion, anyway.

Originally Posted by Terry D

Evolution -- nature's way of 'creating' -- works through competition and conflict. Adaptation leads to an advantage in the struggle to survive ensuring that the adaptation is passed on. So, no, nature is not finished creating, nor will it ever be so long as life exists on this rock we all inhabit. That being the case, then there can never be any perfectly peaceful species. If such a creature existed it would surely be doomed to lose the evolutionary competition.

Where do you propose that a "super race" would come from if homo sapiens is an obstacle to its development?

you might be mixing terms. Humans don't evolve through random genetic mutation. They evolve through knowledge and understanding. And you're right, we love competition. That doesn't mean we have to kill each other. The whole idea of a dog eat dog world is the premise of a free market. right now the government acts to stabilize the economy, preventing any big falls. They're only hindering the inevitable. We have to accept collapses and deal with them privately, and eventually the market will stabilize itself. Our economy is where the competition that all humans strive for can be reached. That and in sports and games. My point is, giving everyone the right to their life and freedom, and not imposing your ideas and values onto other people, is all the peace that's really needed.