Thread: Renaissance V 2.0

Is society, in general, ready for a systemic sweeping re-birth? Is it needed? Is it inevitable?

It's said that history repeats itself. If so, are the conditions at this point in history ripe for a "Renaissance" of sorts?

Gutenberg, movable type 1439... Al Gore, Internet, 1989.
Agricultural and Industrial Revolutions, 18th & 19th centuries... Space and Information Ages, 20th & 21st centuries.

We don't have a modern analogue to Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation. Yet, an objective look at Islam worldwide would indicate that they are due for some sort of reformation (Please do not flame me on this. Theological / Historical observation only. Not a Value Judgment).

Some (not me) can even argue the latest "Occupy" protests are a cultural phenomenon, foretelling a sea change.

So will it happen? If so, will we like the results?

The economy crisis probably isn't going away as long as the market is not allowed to freely move. The rich are sending us into the next depression, which I don't know how bad will be, but the problem is that we won't be able to escape poverty without overthrowing the rich. Then there is the potential of not having any more oil. More exists, but we haven't gotten to it yet. And we're running out soon.

After taking many things into consideration....I don't know. Their are a heap of factors to account for, and many, if not all of them, can not be answered right now.

Will they screw up digging oil, destroying oceans? Will the Internet exist in a couple years? Will china finally make their move while the rest of the World self-destructs? Will Ron Paul be elected president? Or will enough people start moving to start a real revolution? And even if we did revolt, what would we establish in it's place? I certainly don't have an alternative. But the thing is, someone might.

And that's why all these questions don't have answer's right now because we are currently becoming witness to something that has never happened to this extent before. Enough weird people are allowing for the destruction of normal history patterns. The answer to these questions depends on what the people do. Because information is becoming more readily available, and people are becoming used to having multiple options, they are becoming more unique. Not necessarily, wiser, or smarter, just more unpredictable. That combined with the ability to have easy access to accurate information, and the amount of connections that exist to spread that information, creates the potential for something amazing to happen. It allows for the possibility of one voice to affect many. So it might only take 1 person to come up with a brilliant enough scheme to do something about this mess. It's also possible that it's still too early for weirdness to infect an entire nation. Unfortunately though, it might be now or never.

And then again, if it all does burn to the ground, we might just all be well prepared enough to handle it. If doom is imminent, we'll know, as so many are already expecting it. It could be a global movement which I think could be considered a renaissance. It could transform the way the average person thinks and goes about their day. With the right information, you can make it on your own. And with the Internet, all that that information becomes available at your fingertips. That's one of the reasons I have a library of information stored on my computer, along with a lot of printed information, including how to create my own electricity, just in case. I could maybe print and barter information, as well as grow my own food. I'm preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best. There are so many negative factor's I don't think we'll like whatever change comes right away, but we adapt, and maybe once we get used to what ever that change is, it won't be so bad.

The Occupy protest organisers are the same old radical socialist bludgers that's been whinging about western values forever. Rejects of the old Communist order, they're the same old people who had their 9/11 protests before 9/11 got another meaning. They aren't likely to be the type of movement which will usher in a new era.

My thoughts turn more towards a digital revolution and review of copyright and property ownership. How do you send someone to jail, or sue them for thousands of dollars for downloading and sharing one song?

How much is a movie, book, or single really worth, and can there be such a thing as gouging? Should public domain kick in after 5 years? What about 5 years or $5 million in profit?

If digital media like video games and movies are to be treated as "real property", and I can't even media-shift them, why can't I return them? If I purchase a lawnmower, use it, and don't like the way it works I can return it within the first two weeks. If I don't like the new Coldplay album, or MI 4, why can't I return them? Sure I've used them, but just like the lawnmower once I return them I am no longer making long-term use of the product.

Has patent law gone so wrong that it's now more of a hindrance than it's worth? How do we support innovation if you can patent a concept of doing something without having ever done it?

I'm not looking to muddy your thread with dialogue on any of those questions, although I'd explore them in another with anyone that cares to take them up. I think these questions will come to a head in most countries before the OWS or any other economic reform movement shakes the world. I could be wrong though, and I'm looking to the next US Presidential election for the first true signs of potential economic change. I'm not holding my breath, although I'm glad the questions are in play.

Frankly speaking, all my friends either kept or found new, equitable jobs, and the low interest rates and newly-cheapened property values have made home owners out of some of us that couldn't afford it before. This recession is working out pretty well for me and mine.

sorry before I answer this what it 2.0?

Originally Posted by Nacian

sorry before I answer this what it 2.0?

Here's Version 1.0: Renaissance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Every generation thinks: "Well, this is it. Things have never been this bad / odd before. Massive change must be looming."

Well, often it is. It just usually creeps more than jumps. I'm just contemplating that the pace of change is increasing, and with it, our will to resist. Is some resistance to change good? Older guys like me don't welcome revolutionary change the way peeps in their teens and twenties do.

Still, objectively look around. China probably will eclipse the US and Europe economically in a decade or so. If the Sunis and Shia ever get their acts together and stop killing each other, Islam will dominate the planet. A properly leveraged third-world country can parlay a semi-literate workforce, and meager resources, and challenge anyone worldwide.

To me, the social issues (i.e. "Occupy") will follow the larger marco-economic and demographic trends. These kids camped on the sidewalk kinda make me chuckle, thinking they actually have an impact.

Remember, the revolution will not be televised. But it will have millions of hits on YouTube.

Originally Posted by Winston

To me, the social issues (i.e. "Occupy") will follow the larger marco-economic and demographic trends. These kids camped on the sidewalk kinda make me chuckle, thinking they actually have an impact.

Remember, the revolution will not be televised. But it will have millions of hits on YouTube.

2.6M hits [Orignal full version] 1 Marine vs. 30 Cops (By. J. handy) - YouTube
1.5M hits PEACEFUL FEMALE PROTESTORS PENNED IN THE STREET AND MACED!- #OccupyWallStreet - YouTube
900k hits Wall Street Mocks Protesters By Drinking Champagne 2011 - YouTube
511k hits Keep Wall Street Occupied (Part 1) - YouTube (My Fave, you should watch this!)
482k hits MSNBC on NYPD Police Brutality during Occupy Wall Street Lawrence O'donnell with "The Last Word" - YouTube
404k hits Occupy Wall Street Protests - YouTube
365k hits OCCUPY WALL STREET PROTESTERS' ARRESTS - YouTube
192k hits Occupy Wall Street - Chris Hedges shuts down CBC Kevin O'Leary - YouTube
115k hits Michael Moore @ Occupy Wall Street - YouTube

I think renaissance is too weak a word to describe what is coming within the century. I think unless restrictions are placed on technology, then not only will capitalism eventually cease to exist, but humanity will become completely and utterly pointless. I simply don't see how our developments in machinery, robotics, and AI will not lead to us being anything but free-loaders. Which I don't mind being, actually. My only real worry about such a future is the transition, (think mass-unemployment and resulting collapse of consumption), and whether or not AIs will surpass my storytelling skills...

to be honest I thought renaissance and I am a French speaker means something else.
RE with regards as abbreviation RE
or
Re as in Reynold number in physics
and
naissance means birth
so RE/NAISSANCE is a combination of both English and French to mean ''with regard to birth''.
that is literal thinking.

Originally Posted by Capulet

Has patent law gone so wrong that it's now more of a hindrance than it's worth? How do we support innovation if you can patent a concept of doing something without having ever done it?

As an Aussie, I say patent law is corrupt. Example Ugg Boots. Aussies had made ugg boots for an eternity, then a few years ago a Yankee company decides they want it for themselves. The Americans approved the patent despite objections from existing Aussie manufacturers, then the Yankee company demands everybody else stops making them (including legal action).

If I was a government, I'd make it lawful to copy any patent owned by a Yankee company,

Originally Posted by Winston

Still, objectively look around. China probably will eclipse the US and Europe economically in a decade or so. If the Sunis and Shia ever get their acts together and stop killing each other, Islam will dominate the planet. A properly leveraged third-world country can parlay a semi-literate workforce, and meager resources, and challenge anyone worldwide.

Islam or China is the next NWO. Islam will dominate the west, and like previous religions will use violence as one of their tools to achieve this. If China can hold itself together, it can thumb off the west's economic system when ready. The loss of meaningless western green paper is insignificant.


These 9/11-Trotsky Socialists-Occupy bludgers have a surprise waiting for them. Western society will fail, but they won't occupy the seat.

Originally Posted by Rustgold

These pathetic 9/11-Trotsky Socialists-Occupy bludgers have a surprise waiting for them. Western society will fail, but they won't occupy the seat.

Bingo. Reread your history, folks. The 1917 Russian Revolution was purchased with the blood of the proletariat, who Stalin and his thugs booted as soon as possible. Later they exiled Trotsky and murdered countless millions in purges and forced starvation. All you protesters have the loyalty of NO ONE. And NO ONE will come to save you when the s$it hits the fan.

Yes, Nacian, I'm using the term Renaissance as in "re-birth". My question remains: After we eat the rich, everyone owns an ipad and all student loans are forgiven... Then what? What will we be re-born into?

So far, I'm with Rustgold. After the dust settles, it would be useful to know Mandarin or Farsi.

Assuming mankind does not destroy itself with nuclear arms... I foresee the concept of "Europe" changing during the early 21st century. Many parts of Europe will likely become predominately Muslim as well.

The "Global South" will continue to rise and China, India, Brazil, and maybe South Africa will become more significant world powers then they are now.

I think the Middle East is likely to suffer due to its lack of innovation and heavy reliance on revenue from oil. The world will move increasingly way from fossil fuel. I would not be surprised if vehicles become powered by water/hydrogen in my life time.

In terms of the good, I think the world will become a smaller place and international law, courts, and governing bodies will increasingly have more power. A one world government would be nice but I don't see it happening in my life time.

In terms of the bad, I think biological determinism will eventually reign at some point for some time, a world something like the movie Gattaca will come about. Which may not be good for people when it comes to purchasing insurance.

When you think about a future Renaissance (you didn't add the words "of humanity" but I assume that's what you meant), do consider what went down before the last Renaissance.

Assuming that there has been only one renaissance of humanity is a bit short-sighted. Over countless ages the human race has been born and re-born, over and over. Before each "rebirth" is a period of dying-off that generally goes on for a very long time--for centuries, at least. When humanity finally picks itself up and dusts itself off again, the progress that begins to occur is usually of a nature that is unimaginable to those who might have speculated, before the dying-off part happened, what the next "renaissance" would be like.

Obviously, one of the human race's long-range tasks is, and will remain, space travel--the ability to leave the Earth to explore the solar system and eventually the galaxy. We've been lucky this far but observation made possible by technology informs us that the universe is quite a violent place. In fact, tomorrow (8 November 2011) we are going to see a large asteroid pass within our moon's orbit. Scientists reassure us that there will not be a strike, and indeed that this particular asteroid will not strike us over hundreds of years of passes, according to their projections. (That's good news!) And yet they've hit us before, and will again. "Nothing lasts forever" is an axiom you can pretty much take to the bank.

Whatever humanity's fate will be after the next big die-off, if there are any people left they'll once again have to start the process of trying to figure out how to get off this planet, which I'm guessing will take a very long time, because it always does. Knowledge of what's going on outside our own atmosphere is always the first thing we lose.

Originally Posted by Scarlett_156

When you think about a future Renaissance (you didn't add the words "of humanity" but I assume that's what you meant), do consider what went down before the last Renaissance.

Assuming that there has been only one renaissance of humanity is a bit short-sighted...

Oh, I am quite aware of "what went down" before The Renaissance.

That's the point of this philosophical question. It seems, to me, we are due for some kind of Malthusian adjustment. There will probably be some massive loss of life from war, starvation or disease within the next few generations. I'm going to be so bold as taking that as a given.

So the question remains: What will become of us? Will we emerge from such a disaster a better, more enlightened people? Or will we become coarse, brutish thugs like the Goths and Vandals in the 5th century?

And there has only been one "Renaissance" (capital R) so far. We recognize it as a unique epoch in history due to it's specific significance in human development. We're always changing and developing as a race (humans). Sometimes the pace and importance of change speeds up rapidly. The cliché says "Change does not come easy". We may live to see the truth in that.

So, what's ahead? Breathtaking beauty, or unspeakable horror?

Originally Posted by Capulet

I'm looking to the next US Presidential election for the first true signs of potential economic change. I'm not holding my breath, although I'm glad the questions are in play.

I’m more concerned about the 113^th US Congress. And, this occupy movement can influence the upcoming 2012 elections the same way the Tea Party did in the 2010 mid-term elections. There would not even be an 'Occupy Anyplace' today had thr 2010 election gone the other way instead of red. In fact, the Tea Party phenomenon that reached a fever pitch back in 2010 caused this thread to happen. It has completely shaped our current political and economic discourse - and phobias to some extent. This much larger 'Occupy' movement has even greater potential.

As for those who foresee China and Islam as some kind of threat. China’s GDP could eclipse that of the US if things continue on their present course, anything's possible, but according to the world bank, the GDP of the US was 3 times that of China in 2010 - same deal with the EU. China has quite away to go though they are a major player in the world’s economy. They need the US and Europe in order to be that.

Originally Posted by Winston

That's the point of this philosophical question. It seems, to me, we are due for some kind of Malthusian adjustment. There will probably be some massive loss of life from war, starvation or disease within the next few generations. I'm going to be so bold as taking that as a given.

So the question remains: What will become of us? Will we emerge from such a disaster a better, more enlightened people?

Do you mean more enlightened than we are now? There would be more wealth to spread around if our economic system remains intact, if not, we’ll have to make meat pies out of each other once our food supplies dwindle.