Thread: Expatriates and Culture

Are people who move out of their countries beginning to forget or disregard their nation's culture? How patriotic do we remain to our country if we settle in another?

The reason other gringos and I don't get along is their attitude that they should bring their culture with them and ignore what is here. I tell them that if they don't want to adapt themselves to Belizean culture they should go back where they came from. They don't need to forget their culture, but they must respect the customs of the people where they are. Many of them have the attitude that Belize ought to be like the U.S. or Canada. News flash, I tell them. It ain't going to happen, so fit in or get out. Some of them are offended by this, at which point I give them more specific instructions of a personal nature.

My way of paying the rent has led me to living in different countries for weeks or months or years at a time. Whatever my address happens to be, my efforts go toward fitting in, learning how the local system works, learning at least enough of the language to carry on a basic conversation, learning and respecting the customs of the people I'm among. People from North America seem, as a rule, incapable of adapting in this way, apparently believing the rest of the world ought to change to suit them.

It would be dangerous for me to forget I'm Canadian elsewhere.

So long as I carry a Canadian passport I can be tried and convicted of breaking Canadian law, even if what I did is legal in the country I did it!

I don't think I could experience the problem you suggest because my morals and ethics are so intertwined with classic Canadian values that I couldn't settle long-term in a country that didn't at least pretend to share them.

I'm familiar with the Canadian attitude. I have a friend who got in a bit of trouble at a local branch of the Bank of Nova Scotia. He was trying to cash a cheque, and there was some technicality which made the cheque invalid under Canadian law but which did not apply under Belizean law. As the teller was about to stamp 'non-negotiable' across the front of the cheque, my friend lept the counter and twisted the teller's arm to make him drop the cheque. The matter was settled peacefully when my friend agreed to do all his banking elsewhere. He went to another bank and cashed the cheque with no problem.

I could never be comfortable trying to live in a place without adapting to local custom.

Edit - Another thought. Why should any country pretend to share the values of another country? Belize has its own customs and traditions. Thailand has its own customs and traditions. Laos has its own customs and traditions. El Salvador has its own customs and traditions. Why should any of them forsake their heritage and pretend to be something they are not?

The cultural values of any country are as good as the coultural values of any other country. I reject the notion that any one is superior to any other, just as I reject the notion that any ethnic group or race is superior to any other.

I want to live in another country for the specific purpose of experiencing that culture, but my efforts haven't been fruitful so I gave up.

One of my favourite things to watch on tv lately is House Hunters International (<-- linked). You get to see the experiences of individuals moving from one country to another and having to make adjustments as they look into purchasing a house. My favourite, though, is watching Americans who do expect things to be the same and then the realisation hits them that it isn't... well, duh.

Originally Posted by candid petunia

Are people who move out of their countries beginning to forget or disregard their nation's culture? How patriotic do we remain to our country if we settle in another?

In my 50 years on the planet I have spent more than half of them outside my own country. I have assimilated a lot of the cultures I have lived in but remain 100% Kiwi

That being said, I have no desire to move back to NZ, yet. The last time I was back was last Christmas - the first time in 12 years. It was nice to catch up with my parents, brothers and sisters and their families, but it still didn't make me want to live there.

I think I take a lot of what makes NZ special with me wherever I go, but also do my best to assimilate into the culture I live in.

Where we now live and will continue to do so for the next 4 years or so, is so different to home, being an Islamic Sultanate, but there are parallels in every culture, good things and bad things, good people and bad people (less of them here...) and learning to adopt and adapt is half the fun

Besides, I can't wear a sarong down to the bank at home without being subjected to a lot of scrutiny...

There's a village in Yorkshire which will have nothing to do with the village 2 miles to the east of them - The reason? They didn't warn them that the Danes were invading in 948...

That's amusing and typically human - neighbours holding a grudge for over a thousand years. What would happen if urban sprawl were to infect one or both of the villages? Two miles isn't far when the land developers get in top gear.

Originally Posted by garza

That's amusing and typically human - neighbours holding a grudge for over a thousand years. What would happen if urban sprawl were to infect one or both of the villages? Two miles isn't far when the land developers get in top gear.

And has inspired me as a subject for a short story

We used to live in a village in the UK where the neighbouring village (not 2 miles, but not that far) were considered fickle, stupid and untrustworthy by the residents of our village. Residents in the neighbouring village viewed our village as elitist and untrustworthy.

Apparently this stemmed from the Civil War where one village supported one side, the other village supported the other. Our village was on the winning side...

Originally Posted by candid petunia

Are people who move out of their countries beginning to forget or disregard their nation's culture? How patriotic do we remain to our country if we settle in another?

Partly it depends on their religion and their sex. Female Arab Muslims in this country and probably in other Western countries want to continue wearing clothing that covers either their entire body including their face or that covers only their face.

This is just so wrong. If it's allowed to continue, the whole world will be sand-hoppers before long.

You won't catch me turning towards Mecca, getting on my knees, and praying. The gladiolis would get squashed.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

Partly it depends on their religion and their sex. Female Arab Muslims in this country and probably in other Western countries want to continue wearing clothing that covers either their entire body including their face or that covers only their face.

This is just so wrong. If it's allowed to continue, the whole world will be sand-hoppers before long.

You won't catch me turning towards Mecca, getting on my knees, and praying. The gladiolis would get squashed.

do you realise how incredibly offensive what you just wrote is? Not just to the Muslims that are on the forum, but anyone that doesn't believe that categorising an entire religion based on your bigoted viewpoint.

Exactly how many Muslim women do you know? Do you know why they cover themselves? How do you think they feel about Western women walking about 'nearly naked'? How hard do you think it is coming from a society where things are modest and reserved to come into the brash, irreligious, unabashed West?

Perhaps if you actually thought of them as individuals and members of their specific race, instead of 'sand hoppers' you might gain some measure of humanity.

As it is I find your attitude abhorrent and extremely distasteful.

Originally Posted by Bloggsworth

There's a village in Yorkshire which will have nothing to do with the village 2 miles to the east of them - The reason? They didn't warn them that the Danes were invading in 948...

I think there may be quite a few villages in Yorkshire who don't communicate with their neighbours. I remember Parkinson once saying he went 30 minutes down the road from home and couldn't understand a word they were saying. Mind you, you had to pay attention to follow Parky sometimes too.

Originally Posted by Zootalaws

How do you think they feel about Western women walking about 'nearly naked'? How hard do you think it is coming from a society where things are modest and reserved to come into the brash, irreligious, unabashed West?

Okay, let’s forget their clothing. You might have a point about nearly naked Western women, especially if the uncovered bits are full of piercings.

What I really don’t like about Muslim women is their insistence, here anyway, that non-sectarian schools be not allowed to celebrate Xmas because it might upset their little darlings. We’ve had the Jews rubbing up against us for quite a while now, and Xmas never upset them.

What Ox wrote may not have been the best way of putting it.

In countries like Australia & Britain, we have a lot of people coming in who have zero interest in becoming an actual part of this country. In fact many actually loath the citizens. We even see some teaching this hatred to the next generation. In what way should we be tolerant of those people who come with such hatreds.

Originally Posted by garza

The reason other gringos and I don't get along is their attitude that they should bring their culture with them and ignore what is here. I tell them that if they don't want to adapt themselves to Belizean culture they should go back where they came from. They don't need to forget their culture, but they must respect the customs of the people where they are.

Totally agree. If somebody doesn't like what's there, why be there. This applies to Belize as much as to Australia or another country. Problem is that you're called a neo-Nazi if you say that in Australia.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

...non-sectarian schools be not allowed to celebrate

If they are non-sectarian, do they celebrate Hari Raya?