Thread: Men misrepresenting Women

Originally Posted by Zootalaws

Really? I just went back through your post and couldn't find any links - which, if I had, would have obviated my questioning your references. Possibly it is an issue with the template of the forum that doesn't highlight URLs. In which case, my apologies.

The links are hard to see, but they are there. Note that I only started looking up on references after Joseph's second reply.

Your assumption, in a debate, should be the opposite - you are arguing, you need to sustain those assertions.

I shouldn't need to show evidence that rice is hard before it gets cooked; unless someone claims that it is not, there is no need to do so. If we ran by this logic we wouldn't get anywhere.

For precisely this reason - you made a strong assertion and without being called on it, you would have allowed it to stand as fact.

If both debaters are good, then this doesn't happen.

It wasn't. but you don't seem particularly concerned that it has undermined your entire post of unsupported assertions, your response is to swerve around that and take another pop at Joseph.

That was the only thing in my post that had an unsupported assertion. Unless you want to call me out to prove men prefer exercising over dieting too, and while we are at it, that exercise infomercials are evenly targeted for both genders (save the exceptions I gave).

Besides, it was one of several points and it didn't have much meaning. That's probably why I was careless and threw it in without reassuring myself first. I am sorry, but if I felt concerned about being wrong with my facts I would have gone insane long ago. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong; conversely if I'm right, I'm right. It's not like I have the moral duty to be 100% consistent.

And it was supported by the very first that I found after entering '10 year old girls dissatisfied body'

That study sounds biased:

1- Dieting doesn't necessarily imply trying to lose weight. Mothers could be concerned about other things, such as high cholesterol and other things due to the prevalence of junk food in the western world. This is by no means a bad thing, and yet you went as far as highlighting it. Why?

2- We are not shown the average body-fat ratio of the girls that did diet of the 25% that did diet to lose weight. I find it hard to draw conclusions when a large percentage of these girls may be obese. Moreover, we don't know how harmful the diet was, all we know is that these girls dieted at least once.

3- How did they measure concern? That is not shown. How did they figure overweight boys were "less concerned" than the girls? They don't show any figures that indicate this is true.

By the way, your reference points to an article of the study I referenced, which simply asked the kids if they were satisfied with their bodies. That is more inline with what we are discussing (almost straight to the point, may I say), and the figures are a lot more modest.

I am unsure why in a discussion of poor body image of ten year olds where you are discounting Joseph's supportable claim you decide to use two market research companies' self-promoting articles on who has their hands on the cheque-book?

Because it's a good indication of what marketing companies seem to think of the market (seriously, marketing blogs, inc.com)? I just picket three at random. I could go look for more, if you want, although I'm reluctant to. Instead, I suggest you show stronger evidence that the marketing companies in the US don't think that way.

It isn't really that hard... what is hard is throwing away preconceptions when faced with facts.

I'm an old-fashioned guy. It takes a lot to convince me when the assumption is derogatory to a part of my identity.

Originally Posted by Blood

What skin tone? What skin tone do you think I am?

No idea, just as you have no idea what skin tone the poster was or what my racial make-up is. I wouldn't presume to guess, based on the extremely limited amount of information available.

Sorry, but I am no more sensitive to your cause than I am that of the KKK, just saying, as in example.

What cause? You are making up more things to get offended by, as well as casting aspersions on my character, just because I disagree with you. Nice debating technique. Or in your case, debasing technique. Because that is all you are doing, throwing around derogatory, debasing remarks with not one shred of evidence to sustain them.

The only racist, bigoted remarks that have been made have been made by you. You really need to come down from that high dudgeon you are inhabiting and see how you are a poster boy for the kind of belief systems that the KKK represent. That is; ignorance, intolerance, studied indifference and indoctrinated bias.

But yes I KNOW for a fact what kind of person you are thanks to you. You are racist. Need I know more? Don't worry though it's no big deal, there are plenty of you.

And now you are not only being offensive, but childish and petulant. You have absolutely no idea of my politics, my sexual or racial leanings or my societal values, except what I have clearly posted on here. Anything else is supposition and in this case, a clear case of chip-on-shoulder.

And what umbrage is that? I know what he meant and I don't give a damn what you saw! Explain please.

Look it up. I can recommend dictionary.com

That you "don't give a damn what you saw!' says more about you, your anger and your inability to sustain empathy for any other than your own, narrow, bigoted point of view than anything I have said.

Get a grip on reality before you give yourself an ulcer.

Admin note: A warning that personal comments and flaming result in infractions, no matter who makes them.

Nota bene: I've received 2 new notifications over the 2 or 3 days but aside from regular PM's my profile/notification option is not working correctly. Ergo, I can't retrieve the 2 (4 in total) new notifications I've gotten. This has been discussed with Baron already. I would need to re-register (which I may at a later time) to fix the problem. Point being, Writ is not intentionally ignoring anyone, or any complaint or request that might be being sent to me.

Originally Posted by Zootalaws

As well as the misguided media groups above, I believe the problem stems from the fashion houses that insist on using women with the bodies of adolescent boys as their ideal for promoting their wares. It is a race to the bottom (sic) to be the thinnest, most angular, razor-sharp cheekboned 'face' to grace the catwalk and thus, the pages of Vogue, etc.

Yeah, I know, and agree.

Although, I'm impressed with Tyra Banks figure. She's far from anorexic. And she has "back" on her. I think Baron in the past had informed me things are or have changed in the fashion industry. I dunno. I don't really keep up with it. But that one of his areas of expertise.

As for Hip Hop producers... they promote certain images of "manhood." It's a pet peeve of mine as I'm a product of the Hip Hop culture and have to live with all the statistical realities of being a "black male." Hip Hop promotes curved (not skinny) women as sex objects but they promote what Black-Americans term "hyper-masculine" ideals of manhood. And the women reared in Hip Hop measure males against the images they see of "real men." Why I ask... do I have to rob a bank or risk my life to gun fight and or prison to be a "real man" (i.e., rich and or gangster/thug)? There are very few anorexic women in Black-America but there are tons of black males in prison or out of prison with felonies. In fact a good childhood friend of mine (mulatto) just got arrested a couple weeks ago selling to an undercover. He had a pistol on him too. He's a father of several kids including a newborn boy he just had. He already had two felonies prior to this. Add to this he has health problems - probably ulcers from the description of the symptoms I'm told about via second hand. So, he's sitting in jail right now vomiting. I know because we all have more than one deputy friend in the jail he's sitting in.

Even at 40 women from the "hood" expect you to risk it all to get what little "bread" (money) you can. And the women worship status and status symbols. Men are "status objects" then. And if that is "cry me a river, it's Darwinian," then I say the same about men's choice and worshiping of good looking physical features in women.

The opposite sexes both define what is "attractive" in the other sex.

Free me of having to die early of stress related diseases and I'll free you of having to die from anorexia. Until then....

Although, I'm impressed with Tyra Banks figure. She's far from anorexic. And she has "back" on her. I think Baron in the past had informed me things are or have changed in the fashion industry. I dunno. I don't really keep up with it. But that one of his areas of expertise.

I wasn't sure who you meant so I had to look her up (purely for research purposes, you unnerstan' ) and yes, she seems like a very healthy, wholesome woman, not at all what is common on the catwalks of Europe and NY.

But... for every Tyra, there are hundreds, maybe thousands who don't get to grace the covers of Vogue, GQ, Sports Illustrated that are of the 'heroin chic' variety.

My daughters are 'fashion conscious' and as a result, being the sole male in a household of four, I saw an interminable series of clothes-horse shows, especially when Fashion Week was coming round.

This is by far the more usual:





But I feel we are not in disagreement on basics.

I found your take on 'hip hop' culture interesting. Not being young, American or with many/any friends that are, it is always edifying to get another POV. Thanks for that.

Women nowdays don't know what they want.

The hot one's want to be sex idols, the smart ones want to be succesful bussiness men and the ugly ones want to be respected as equals to men.

Does anyone honestly still care about this?

That's a refreshingly misogynistic point of view.

Do you have many female friends?

Originally Posted by Zootalaws

That's a refreshingly misogynistic point of view.

Do you have many female friends?

More than I have close male friends.

I'm sorry if my reality came off as misogynistic.

Boy, those catwalk women are ugly as the rear hide of a donkey.