Thread: US Stagnation

I just watched a BBC news report which stated that 46% of Americans are now below the official poverty line. 10% are unemployed and there has been zero job creation since Obama came to power.

It appears to me that it's time for a new political force to emerge in the States; perhaps one that will be more devoted to issues at home rather than investing in warfare abroad.

That's 46 million, not 46%. That's actually 15%.

Still nothing to be proud of.

I think there's room in the budget for both, but they should certainly review their foreign policy and see if their methods are giving them sufficient ROI. I think they could things a little differently and reduce the need for them to be out protecting their investments with military force.

Of course I feel bad them. The second the United States pulls out of many of the places they are involved internationally they'll probably gain as many critics for withdrawing as they silence for remaining. But, at least this situation has a smaller price tag on it.

I don't know what a world without the US nose everywhere would look like, but I don't think it's the rosy picture some protestors would have you believe.

Originally Posted by Baron

It appears to me that it's time for a new political force to emerge in the States; perhaps one that will be more devoted to issues at home rather than investing in warfare abroad.

Sorry. I think the word you were looking for was welfare.

The Founding Fathers created the best government this planet has yet to see. Dishonest and greedy politicians have dragged the country downward.

Warfare abroad? What do you expect a father to do when a madman kills his young daughter or son? Track him down to present him with a box of chocolate and bouquet of roses? The US government isn't the only military-minded player on the block. Yet, liberals always point a finger at Uncle Sam, as if the other nuclear-powered nations didn't exist.

Foreign Policy

It's not a numbers game; it's a tragedy.

President Bush erred when he invaded Iraq, but didn't the United Nations and the rest of the civilized world behave just as foolishly for allowing Saddam Hussein to brutalize Shites and Kurds in his own country?

I think it's inhumane to turn innocent victims (on both sides) into statistics. People are much more valuable than numbers are. The loss of a life prematurely is sad.
What about the innocent Americans who left their families on 9/11/01 to go to work at the World Trade Center, only to never return home again? The plotters should be brought to justice. Don't you think?

In the recorded history of Western civilization has the world ever been poverty-free or war-free? Since day one, man has been a casualty of his own thoughts. And, that fact may never change. It's unfair to single out one country when all are engaged in the same game of warfare.

The system in the US is already structured to give the population just what it wants. What we have today is the result of years of apathy and inactivity by US voters. If we have lousey politicians it's because we elected them, and it will change when people get angry enough to change it. We saw some of that in the last national elections with the emergence of the Tea Party candidates and I think we'll see more in 2012.

To put our current situation into perspective I think it helps to look at some real numbers. First, unemployment isn't at 10%, it's at 9.1% and holding (down from 9.7% a few months ago). That .9% may not sound like much, but it correlates to nearly 3 million people working. Yes we now have 15.1% of the population living under the poverty line, the highest number since 1993 and a terrible situation, but, the European Union has 18% of its population under that same line (lead by the UK with 22%), so I think those numbers have more to do with the global economy than the percieved failure of any one nation.

The U.S. unemployment rate is much higher than what it's given. The true unemployment rate is probably around 20%.

Not sure about the U.K. but in the U.S. if you have not worked in something like the last six months or maybe it was a year, then you're tallied as "out of the workforce" and therefore do not go into the unemployment figures. This helps every administration look better.

But it should be kept in mind that "poverty" in the U.S. in general, doesn't look like poverty in developing nations. In general the poor in the United States live better than the nobility of Europe did centuries ago. Much of the poor in the United States lives as well as some of the lower-middle-class throughout the developing world.

I know in Milwaukee for example, no real "ghettos" exist any longer. They exist in terms of cultural boudaries due to social mind sets. The impoverished destroy the rental property they live in and throw garbage around. And I'm not saying it's easy to live in the United States if you have a low paying job. It can be quite hard. But even on welfare in the U.S. with section 8 housing you can live in dignity, but it requires hygene and maintaining the property you live in. And some poor in the U.S. do this while some don't.




Addendum: I was just speaking with some Black-American veterans (drug addicts) a few days ago about how hard it is for felons to obtain a path to real substainable wealth (acceptance into graduate/professional school and access to jobs in medicine, law etc.). I was responded to slightly harshly. A case example was given of an ex-con willing to jump through hoops (metaphorically) to rise in an honest career (spelling?). It can be done I was told, but only if the ex-con is willing to put in the hard work.

Most these vets in Milwaukee V.A. dom are from Chicago by the way. Some of the vets have been to prison more than once. I mention this because my empathy towards the struggles of ex-cons in obtaining high income professions is regarded as "weak" or "soft" to many impoverished blacks and whites.

It's much easier for the impoverished in America (any color!) to pick themselves up and get back into the race than it is in many African-nations or third world nations. One hasn't experienced real poverty until one visits these places. Nobody starves to death in America. There is always a place to get a bite.

If one works hard in the USA, he or she can reach any goal--including prosperity. In poor nations, the opportunities that exist in America just aren't available. Some people don't know when they have it good; all they do is complain and whine.

In my old neighborhood, we had an expression for ungrateful people. It went like this: "That 'son of-a-gun' is crying with a loaf of bread underneath his arm."



To those living abroad with an interest in US politics, the following stories might provide a glimpse at the turmoil (and this is from a far-left viewpoint too, a viewpoint that tries to minimize damage for the sake of getting Obama re-elected again in 2012):

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...rough-news-day


One might be the loneliest number, but if everybody could live only as one--what a wonderful world it would be.

Originally Posted by Terry D

The system in the US is already structured to give the population just what it wants. What we have today is the result of years of apathy and inactivity by US voters. If we have lousey politicians it's because we elected them, and it will change when people get angry enough to change it. We saw some of that in the last national elections with the emergence of the Tea Party candidates and I think we'll see more in 2012.

To put our current situation into perspective I think it helps to look at some real numbers. First, unemployment isn't at 10%, it's at 9.1% and holding (down from 9.7% a few months ago). That .9% may not sound like much, but it correlates to nearly 3 million people working. Yes we now have 15.1% of the population living under the poverty line, the highest number since 1993 and a terrible situation, but, the European Union has 18% of its population under that same line (lead by the UK with 22%), so I think those numbers have more to do with the global economy than the percieved failure of any one nation.

People who are considered below the poverty line in the UK are still well off by comparison with other countries. With government benefits, housing benefits, tax credits, family credits and a free health service, much more provision is made than in most other countries.

Originally Posted by Baron

People who are considered below the poverty line in the UK are still well off by comparison with other countries. With government benefits, housing benefits, tax credits, family credits and a free health service, much more provision is made than in most other countries.

To obtain a pension in Britain, one must pay into a pension fund first, and the amount of one's pension is determined by how long one has been paying in. Out here in the colonies, by comparison, to obtain a pension, one simply fills out a form. Our present full pension is the equivalent of £237 or US$374 per week.

Queue forms on the right.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

To obtain a pension in Britain, one must pay into a pension fund first, and the amount of one's pension is determined by how long one has been paying in. Out here in the colonies, by comparison, to obtain a pension, one simply fills out a form. Our present full pension is the equivalent of £237 or US$374 per week.

Queue forms on the right.

That's not true. Those who don't pay into a pension fund can still claim a basic state pension.

Originally Posted by Baron

People who are considered below the poverty line in the UK are still well off by comparison with other countries. With government benefits, housing benefits, tax credits, family credits and a free health service, much more provision is made than in most other countries.

Just as the US has wellfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and a wealth of other assistance for the impoverished. My point was simply that the US isn't in a unique position when it comes to poverty, and, therefore, not in any greater need of a "new political force" to arise.

I believe the current administration in the USA is now pointing a finger at the uncertainty in Europe for its current woes at home. Truth is, nobody is going to get the truth from any of the people running the show. They are all in the game to save their on skins and they will say anything or blame anybody to do so.

Obama duped America into believing he was a politician without the usual spots. He is no different from the ones in the past and the ones in the future. The political system in the USA breeds corruption. Unless the system is completely overhauled, the only ones coming up the pike will be the usual politicians. If anyone expects "statesmen" to emerge, they ought to keep dreaming.

The tragedy is that we are fixed on the idea that general elections produce bloodless transitions. While that may be true, it does not stop the flow of the corruption and the greed in politics. The voters all know most of the politicians in Washington, D.C. have lost touch with the American people and are indeed lining their own pockets with cash from favors. The American people have turned a blind eye to this fact as long as they find a "chicken in their own pot."
It's an unholy compromise between the politicians and the voters that has gone on a bit too long now. I do believe a broom is necessary to clean up the mess: sweep the crooks out of office. Voters need to get smart--fast!