Thread: Pride; The Meaning of; Things to be Proud and Not; Pitfalls

What is pride? How do you define it? Dictionary definitions do not apply to this discussion, as it is intended to explore and express personal interpretations and thoughts relating to the nature of pride, its value and detriment, what you are proud of, what you are not proud of, and above all, why.


Things I am proud of:


I am proud to be an atheist (which I personally define as one who lacks a belief in deities of any kind, and not a person who believes they do not—there is a very distinct difference) and all-round sceptic of anything that cannot be verified with tangible, concrete and demonstrable evidence to prove any assertation of truth. I am proud to have based my position on hundreds, if not thousands of hours spent investigating both sides of the debate, presented by everyone from the greatest contemporary authorities on these subjects, to the ancient arguments and statements put forth from philosophers, scholars, historians and the holy texts myriad religions.


I am proud to have achieved the level of literacy I possess, despite having a grade eight education.


I am proud to be a kind, compassionate, and non-violent human being, despite being raised in conditions that statistically turn most victims into abusers.


I am proud to have accomplished all that I put my mind to, in spite of the many obstacles that cause me to experience extreme difficulty in doing so: severe ADHD, emotional distress, chronic insomnia, (I'm lucky if I sleep two hours per day) severe anxiety and depression, to name just a few.


I am proud of many things. . . but here are some things I am not proud of:


I am not proud of my nationality. Canada is a great country, socially and technologically advanced, granting us Canadians a multitude of rights and privileges that most people of this world would envy, if they only knew. However, what have I contributed to the state that Canada is in? What have I done to make it such a great country? What influence have I had in anything that shapes the future course of this wonderful nation or its past? Absolutely nothing. The most I've done is vote for a politician who didn't get elected.


I could write another great list here, but the essence of it all would be this: I take no pride in things I have not had any direct influence in but merely benefit from. Why should I? What could possibly justify those feelings? I am lucky to have been born in Canada instead of a third-world country where I could never hope to engage in the privilege of intellectual discourse or the pursuit of hobbies, due to the unending actions required of me merely to sustain my life, such as scravenging in a dump for food. What right do I have to feel proud to be Canadian as an accident or random occurrence of birth? None whatsoever.


The statements expressed above are my opinions only. Don't take them personally. The purpose of this thread is to exchange ideas and perceptions, thoughts and insights, practise writing something intelligible--all that good crap.


Feel free to respond to anything I have written or simply post your own thoughts on the topic.


Encouraging critical thought,


Don

Having been convinced in one of your previous threads that anything I do is but a reaction to the myriad stimuli and biochemical reactions, I am but a slave to fate and can feel no pride in anything.

If you are only proud of things you have had an influence on, but you are but a product of a cosmic game of dominoes, how can you take pride in anything?

Originally Posted by Capulet

Having been convinced in one of your previous threads that anything I do is but a reaction to the myriad stimuli and biochemical reactions, I am but a slave to fate and can feel no pride in anything.

If you are only proud of things you have had an influence on, but you are but a product of a cosmic game of dominoes, how can you take pride in anything?

Try not to take things so seriously, Capulet. These are just ideas.

But to answer your question, it is due to my irrational nature as a human being. I have endless thoughts and feelings that have no good explanation or need for one. Nevertheless, I do find it interesting to think about these things.

Thought: the gift of evolution. Let's use it.

I read a Jesuit author's (they're apparently the greatest source on Amerindians of said region) history book on Oregon Country and the Amerindians and Jesuit missionaries of that region. That author would mention a number of times what personality traits he gleaned from the photos of various Jesuits living in Oregon Country of long ago.

I learned something from that.

Here is the image of pride. (And one of my past models I used, though I never knew him, for entering college)



Frank Balistrieri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Don

Try not to take things so seriously, Capulet. These are just ideas.

But to answer your question, it is due to my irrational nature as a human being. I have endless thoughts and feelings that have no good explanation or need for one. Nevertheless, I do find it interesting to think about these things.

Thought: the gift of evolution. Let's use it.

I am thinking. I'm thinking if you're a determinist, you shouldn't be taking pride in anything because according to your own belief structure you are but a product of all these other influences and had no direct decision in the path you've taken. You can feel fortunate that your slot in the grand scheme is more comfortable than many others, but pride?

Conversely, you shouldn't feel shame over your politics either, even if you voted Liberal! Your path was determined, as was the cataclysmic self-destruction of the Libs.

With more of an increasing desire to just be a humble and better (good) man, this gentleman, although I do not know him, has replaced my old model. My new image of pride.



Manny Pacquiao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Writ-with-Hand

With more of an increasing desire to just be a humble and better (good) man, this gentleman, although I do not know him, has replaced my old model. My new image of pride.

Manny Pacquiao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wiki does him no justice. My fiancee is from the Phils, and Manny is pretty much a saint as far as his hometown and region are concerned. Not only because of his boxing prowess, but because of all the time and money he has put back in to the community.

He pretty much paved his entire community, has put countless children through school, and has single-handledly raised the standard of living for an entire region of the Phils. Combine that with the story of faithfulness and perserverence he and Jinkee represent, and he pretty much rises to legend status back home.

Expect more than one statue of this man to go up, for all the right reasons.

Edit: Look for the interview at the end of his last fight. When he's asked what he's going to do now that he's defended his title again, he says something like, "I have to go home and work"!!! lol I don't know many world champion boxers with a day job.

I'll have to look for that interview, Cap.

He's an extraordinary man. I hope most of his charity and image is from his heart and not just a publicly crafted image masking a much different man that is deeply flawed and unloving. But I give Manny the benefit of the doubt and have no reason to doubt the image he has gained.

I suppose your fiancee is a fan of his?

I don't dislike Floyd Mayweather and I'm not envious of his success. I'm also not playa hating on him, but he has a much different sense of pride than Manny and seems to have little humility. Or maybe it's all just show? I doubt it though. Maybe a little of it is just show-business for his career.

Pride is the thing that prevents you to strive for more, or conversely, forces you to go over your limits to maintain a status-quo that goes by the law of diminishing returns. I prefer to stay low profile, not stand out, and not hang my accomplishments on the wall. I'm fine with being third or fourth, and so far my life has been fun, easy and rewarding.

If there is one thing that I for one, agree with the bible, is that pride more often than not does more harm than good, and is entirely unnecessary to accomplish your goals.

That said, having self-esteem is important. You should always think that you are just as capable, if not more, to accomplish what you want than everyone else around you. But I believe it's not our actions that define us, but the persons we've grown to be through them. I don't need prices, certificates or creeds to know that I'm great and able to get what I want. I was prideful in the past, until I realized that for everything you've done, there is someone out there that has done it better, or will beat you in the future. Which is why having pride in your identity and nothing else is much more practical; no one can be better than you at being yourself.

Originally Posted by Capulet

I am thinking. I'm thinking if you're a determinist, you shouldn't be taking pride in anything because according to your own belief structure you are but a product of all these other influences and had no direct decision in the path you've taken. You can feel fortunate that your slot in the grand scheme is more comfortable than many others, but pride?

Almost a good point but for the fact that I don't actually believe in determinism. I accept it, for now, because it makes the most sense to me at present. New insights could change that in a heartbeat. Besides, what I feel, according to determinism, isn't my choice either. So if I were to feel pride, shame, jubilation or exultation in shooting a fellow for refusing to pull up his pants, as this guy did, (‪ELawshea's Channel‬‏ - YouTube) I would have no control over that, and it wouldn't matter one bit.

But fear not. I don't take determinism too seriously, and I hold myself 100% responsible for my own actions. So I won't shoot the hip-hoppers, even if they do drive me positively batty with horrendous grammar, intentional speech impediments and dress styles that can cause a man to envy the blind.

Edit: Elite, well said! For once, we are in 100% agreement.

Originally Posted by elite

I was prideful in the past, until I realized that for everything you've done, there is someone out there that has done it better, or will beat you in the future.

You're probably right, Elite.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." (King, M.L. 1963, Strength to Love, p.31)

King was arrested more than twenty times, physically assaulted four times and his home was bombed. But through it all, he was victorious; they were victorious.



This is Pride.