Thread: Does equal opportunity actually exist within the US?

Do all races, sexes, classes and ages have equal opportunity in the United States? Are we now all on a level playing field?

As a white male, if I try to get into a college I know I'm at a disadvantage compared to visible minorities based on both race and gender. So no, equal opportunity does not exist.

We're born, we die - nothing in between is equitable, though people try to make it so.

Originally Posted by Capulet

As a white male, if I try to get into a college I know I'm at a disadvantage compared to visible minorities based on both race and gender. So no, equal opportunity does not exist.

Ah, Good point. I have also often wondered what amount of my student loans would be grants or even scholarships if I were not white, not to say this upsets me however.
I was watching a segment on the news yesterday that was discussing a recent study that found white families are now earning 20 times more than minority familes on average. This is the biggest gap decades. What is the bigger picture? Are minorities at more of a dissadvantage, and if so, why? If not, then why?

Originally Posted by Brock

Do all races, sexes, classes and ages have equal opportunity in the United States? Are we now all on a level playing field?

I don't think John Rawl's would say so. Original Position (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Not everyone is equal in genetically physical and intellectual capabilities either.

I would say in most occupations (a few excepted like construction) being female is no longer an obstacle. I think being a non-white female can be an obstacle in much of the workforce but usually not a significant obstacle. Some might say it can be a benefit at times.

But how far one succeeds in life depends on a lot of different variables and constants. You can be born white and male and given a set of variables and constants you can end up at a severe disadvantage to your peer next to you that is black and male or Asian and gay or Hispanic and female or a white beautiful bimbo.

Starting points like class, family, schooling, environment all have impact.

I know there are exceptions to the rule but in general if I had to be reborn again, and had a choice as what to come back as, I would not come back as Black-American male in the United States. I would come back as that before I'd pick being transsexual or mentally retarded or physically disabled. But I would pick being any race or female before being black and male. The price to being black and male - given the typical variables and constants in most black males lives and environments - is too high a price to pay.

Originally Posted by Brock

Ah, Good point. I have also often wondered what amount of my student loans would be grants or even scholarships if I were not white, not to say this upsets me however.
I was watching a segment on the news yesterday that was discussing a recent study that found white families are now earning 20 times more than minority familes on average. This is the biggest gap decades. What is the bigger picture? Are minorities at more of a dissadvantage, and if so, why? If not, then why?

In cities like Detroit (largest "black city" in the United States), Cleveland, and Milwaukee you had Black-Americans, especially in the robust middle-class, more tied to blue-collar jobs than White-Americans. The blacks lacked significant transition to the post-industrial economy.

Wealth gap widens for whites over blacks, Hispanics - Pew - Jul. 26, 2011




One of the books I'm reading now is about a young Black-American woman reared in Milwaukee. The close suburbs: Shorewood and River Hills. Both well-to-do areas. She attended University School a private grade school or middle school that children from the wealthiest homes in the region attended. Her brief stint in public school as a child as well as her encounters with black people in Milwaukee reinforced her awareness that she spoke different from most Black-Americans. She got beat up over it in public school by a black girl, and as she said, "...most black people in Milwaukee accused me of speaking white." (I probably paraphrased that slightly).

Your starting point matters. That author Lori Tharps in her wonderful book Kinky Gazpacho is married to a Spaniard today, lives in Philadelphia, and has had a respectable career as a journalist for a number of magazines.

You can start from humble origins like Oprah Winfrey too. You'll need drive, direction, and some mentoring I'm sure.

One of the books I'm reading now is about a young Black-American woman reared in Milwaukee. The close suburbs: Shorewood and River Hills. Both well-to-do areas. She attended University School a private grade school or middle school that children from the wealthiest homes in the region attended. Her brief stint in public school as a child as well as her encounters with black people in Milwaukee reinforced her awareness that she spoke different from most Black-Americans. She got beat up over it in public school by a black girl, and as she said, "...most black people in Milwaukee accused me of speaking white." (I probably paraphrased that slightly).

Your starting point matters. That author Lori Tharps in her wonderful book Kinky Gazpacho is married to a Spaniard today, lives in Philadelphia, and has had a respectable career as a journalist for a number of magazines.

You can start from humble origins like Oprah Winfrey too. You'll need drive, direction, and some mentoring I'm sure.

Thank you for the graph and the reference to the book, which sounds very interesting; I will have to check it out. Regarding our starting point: Minorities were descriminated against when it came to FHA loans, especially those in inner cities. While it is a federal loan, it was being handed out at the local level by local officials who descriminated against thousands, if not millions of minorities. Some argue this injustice is still going on. Many say this past descrimination is the single biggest reason for the wealth gap today. Why? Because we have now have middle-class by wealth and middle-class by income. Jump ahead 30-40 years later and many whites are now able to enjoy the quarter of a million in equity in the home which they obtained through FHA. Minorities were left to dwell in their inner-city apartments, paying just as much for rent as whites were paying for their new homes under these new loans.

The problem just keeps getting worse. I live about 50 miles south of Toledo, a perfect example. Blacks make up the majority of the inner-city, while there has been a mass exodus of whites to the suburbs. The biggest reason now: The wealthier white parents that did remain no longer want their children attending the lower income "black" schools of the city.

In many parts of the country we seem to be getting more and more segregated by race and income. While many see those who have been left behind (the poor) as victims of their own "laziness or inferiority," I have always seen through this unjust stereotype. I am white and have lived in a very white and very conservative area my entire life. Most people around here do not share my point of view on this subject, but choose to harbor their stereotypes and hatred of the "lazy entitlement class" instead. I'm not sure what led me to think outside the box here in Hancock County. The walls of this box are quite thick.

Ohio. Not all states are equal either. Michigan and Ohio have taken a very hard hit and especially in this time of recession.

My generation of Black-Americans (Gen X) that can afford to do so are moving out into the suburbs around the country. I don't blame them. But this seems to be a little less the case in Milwaukee - which I suspect will eventually develop a national image like a black Atlanta, Chicago, or maybe former Harlem if the trend of more blacks moving in then out continues many years down the line from now.

I was watching some news show a few months ago detailing the great migration of blacks in Illinois leaving Chicago for the suburbs of Illinois. In Illinois and around the country it's said nothing like it has occurred since the "Great Migration" of blacks from the South to the North.

These Gen X blacks leaving the cities say they don't want to raise their children around what they were raised around. I don't blame them.

There are some truths in some of the stereotypes you speak of Brock. While I don't think the whole situation can be reduced to "lazy people," there is a glamorized gangster lifestyle and beating the system through entitlement programs that is pretty wide spread throughout Black-America. It's mostly females on those entitlement programs though.







There are some black people I know that would prefer to move out to places like Oak Creek or Waukesha County. Not me. They are safer areas but you're not wanted out there either. Culture and ease mean a lot for me. I'd be perfectly happy living in more liberal Wauwatosa or the upper-class white area of Bayshore in Milwaukee. Actually, I'd be very happy in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil over living in Waukesha or Oak Creek.

I'd be very happy in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil over living in Waukesha or Oak Creek.

Being a happily married family man, I would be very content living in Hawaii. If I were single, I would choose Brazil and probably remain single for the rest of my life.

Originally Posted by Brock

Being a happily married family man, I would be very content living in Hawaii. If I were single, I would choose Brazil and probably remain single for the rest of my life.

Being a tall, blue-eyed caucasian I think if I were to do it over again (or change my mind next week, heh heh) I would probably go over to Japan and "do my part for international relations" for a decade.

Originally Posted by Capulet

Being a tall, blue-eyed caucasian I think if I were to do it over again (or change my mind next week, heh heh) I would probably go over to Japan and "do my part for international relations" for a decade.

So, you like short Asian women, huh?

You're probably aware already... that the largest Japanese population outside Japan exists in Brazil. Same thing with Italian. And I think same thing with Lebanese outside of Lebanon.

The Brazilians of Japanese descent that visit or immigrate (or is it emigrate?) to Japan report that they are discriminated against or even shunned because of their different cultural traits. This is especially the case for having a different, very un-Japanese body language, for the female Brazilians of Japanese descent.

The Japanese are notorious for treating Koreans poorly too.

At any rate, I understand where you and Brock are coming from, be it Japan or Brazil, but my romantic pangs for Brazil are a little more than desired flings with its women. One is enough, and I more than likely would take her surname, preferably she would come from an aristocratic family that's well connected, and like Obama with his wife I would adopt her ethnicity. Whether single of married my romantic idea of experiencing "Brazil" would be from the position and through the lens of the upper-crust.

It's condos or apartments like these off a beach I'd like to be "Brazilian" from.


Source: ApartmentsRIO.com - Apartments & homes in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil for rent and for sale

Very nice

I don't have a thing for aisan ladies specifically so much as I have a thing for girls that have a thing for me. Coming from a money-obsessed city I don't mind easy hunting grounds once and a while, and while I'm happy with Lady Capulet, a Filipina, in my past-life as a womanizer quantity was considered a quality.

I didn't pick Lady Cap so much because of the physical traits of her ethnicity, but because culturally filipinas with tradtional values are very loyal, family-oriented, and industrious. She compliments my personality in many ways and we match well. The fact I find her deep, dark eyes completely fascinating is a nice bonus.

If we're still talking about 'equality' in the United States...

There is equality of opportunity, but not equality of results.

Many places around the world, whatever class or caste you are born into, you remain in until you die. In America, there are 'poor' (who by a global standard are quite wealthy). This group historically has 'moved-up' to middle class. Also, many middle class become wealthy.
Of course, there is downward movement as well. That is the price of freedom.

Our Founding Fathers recognized that all men are differently abled, therefore will end up with different results. Some will learn a trade, some get into academics or politics. Some, unfortunately, will be shiftless, lazy bums. Expecting every citizen to be a highly literate, property owning active member of society is folly and against natural law. We suffer, or enjoy, the results of our decisions and the fruits of our labour.

Our current economic nightmare was made worse by the 'entitlement' mentality that every American should have a house, LCD TV and an annual vacation to Maui. Everyone has the 'opportunity' to acquire these things. Not everyone deserves everything under the sun.
Rent a room. Get a used TV. Vacation in a state park (like I do). SAVE YOUR MONEY.
And don't expect any other American to subsidize your lifestyle

Originally Posted by Winston

If we're still talking about 'equality' in the United States...

There is equality of opportunity, but not equality of results.

Many places around the world, whatever class or caste you are born into, you remain in until you die. In America, there are 'poor' (who by a global standard are quite wealthy). This group historically has 'moved-up' to middle class. Also, many middle class become wealthy.
Of course, there is downward movement as well. That is the price of freedom.

Our Founding Fathers recognized that all men are differently abled, therefore will end up with different results. Some will learn a trade, some get into academics or politics. Some, unfortunately, will be shiftless, lazy bums. Expecting every citizen to be a highly literate, property owning active member of society is folly and against natural law. We suffer, or enjoy, the results of our decisions and the fruits of our labour.

Our current economic nightmare was made worse by the 'entitlement' mentality that every American should have a house, LCD TV and an annual vacation to Maui. Everyone has the 'opportunity' to acquire these things. Not everyone deserves everything under the sun.
Rent a room. Get a used TV. Vacation in a state park (like I do). SAVE YOUR MONEY.
And don't expect any other American to subsidize your lifestyle

I thought it was credit cards and credit in general - not food stamps or women on welfare - that drove most American luxury spending? The whole mantra of "Spend, spend, spend," in the early and mid 1990's came from the politically conservative camp in the United States. Please don't tell me it didn't when I recall conservatives on television encouraging Americans to go out and spend money - rather than save - as the primary way to drive the U.S. economy (which I admit carries a good amount of truth behind it).

And most middle-class in the United States never become wealthy.

The Founding Fathers of the United States began the entitlement program when they began giving out land for cheap to white people willing the settle the "West" (Midwest to West Coast).

Local people and those in Southeastern Wisconsin are in an racial uproar. This over a mob of possibly 100 black youth physically attacking white people (in a white area of town mind you). The attacks were once again racially motivated.

Depending on your political line you likely have certain explanations. For the White-American that's liberal it's the explanation is blacks having suffered long racial discrimination and exclusion from jobs etc.

The situation is not as bad as some are making it out to be but it's still pretty bad. Some - on both sides - are saying certain things I've maintained for some time. Hilarious. I'll give them about 15 to 20 years to finally recognize some of the other glaring social factors going into the socio-economic divide.





All articles too long to read (would be of interest only to those of Southeastern Wisconsin probably anyways).

1. State Fair melees produce 11 injuries, 31 arrests - JSOnline

2. Your thoughts on mob incidents at State Fair - JSOnline (comments)

3. JC Poppe's Blogs: Fighting hate and anger with hate and anger is counter-productive (young white Hip Hop blogger)



From #3.

Published Aug. 5, 2011 at 6:07 p.m.



You can't fight acts of anger and alleged racism with anger and certifiable racism while expecting something good to come out of it.

After the mob-like attacks on and around the Wisconsin State Fair grounds last night, this seems to be the reaction of many people – both white and black.

This angered one of my acquaintances from college so much that they wanted to have a talk with me. This person is somebody who works in the social services field in the Milwaukee area, specifically with children, and the conversation that took place was alarming to me.

Here are some of the excerpts from this person's comments to me:

"I work in social services and you can't blame the government for this. These "social programs" don't work. They have created people who are completely unable to be self-sufficient, who then have kids who are completely unable to be self-sufficient and they don't parent their children because nothing is their responsibility."

"My organization is all about hand outs and ass wiping, there is no accountability."

In a joint statement, Aldermen Bob Donovan and Joe Dudzik took the time to look down their noses at the African-American community in their reaction to the State Fair attacks in a press release that had to be issued twice because of spelling errors.

Donovan and Dudzik had this to say:

"As elected officials, we are shocked and concerned about the senseless violence displayed by the large mob outside State Fair Park last night. On behalf of our city, we apologize to the victims and good patrons who endured or witnessed such horrific behavior.

Sadly, what transpired near State Fair Park last night is only the most recent mob riot spawned by a culture of violence that has been brewing in Milwaukee for some time.

And let's face it, it also has much to do with a deteriorating African American culture in our city.
Are large groups of Hispanics or Hmong going out in large mobs and viciously attacking whites?

No.

We are reaping the harvest that we've sown.

There are repercussions for the staggering illegitimacy rate in our African American community.

There are repercussions for having little to no positive male involvement in the lives of African American children.

There are repercussions for single-parent homes where children aren't properly supervised, and where they aren't held responsible for their actions.

There are repercussions for a staggering, decades-long near 50% unemployment rate for African American males in our city.

Our hearts go out to the older generation of African Americans in this city who remember when their community had one of the HIGHEST marriage rates in the city. Sadly, many of these same residents are now scared of their own children and grandchildren.